'71 Trans Am Rally wheel codes.
 

OK, here's the deal. Need you guys opinions on which code Rally's my '71 TA should have.
Background,... bought this car from the second owner in 1984, with about 81K miles. It's a Van Nuys 05A built May 7th. The 4 original road wheels were long gone, but it has its' original Rally & F60 Polyglas in the trunk, never used. 2nd owner said that spare was in the trunk when he bought it about '77. But the near mint Build Sheet, in Box 59 shows wheel code JW. The perfect spare is a KN dated M1 over 0 (zero), and 7-28.
What do I put on the 4 corners? JW's or KN's. Or, like a couple other '71 TA's I've seen, could this car have been built with both JW & KN's?
Last Q. Has anyone been able to determine at what point Pontiac switched from JW's to KN's? And why, when they appear to be identical wheels? :confused:

They switched when they ran out of JWs which I would guess was well before May. I have heard of cars with mixes of codes. I really don't think your car would have had JWs. My buddy's January built Norwood 71 TA still had all five of its original KNs, so, Norwood was pretty much there by January. My 71 is a 12C built Van Nuys car. I have some evidence that my car probably still had JWs, however, I am going with a JW/KN mix due to difficulty of finding enough of either. FWIW, the JWs I have are dated 6-25 and off of a 12B built Van Nuys 71.

There was a discussion about that build sheet code in a different thread and I don't think that having that JW code means that you had JW wheels. Being a later car you could go with KNs or KRs and be fine. If I were you I would look for some earlier dated KRs and go with those. Easier to find than KNs or JWs.

My 1971 Trans Am was built Feb 24th 1971 at the Van Nuys plant and it has its original JW wheels.

What are the date codes on your wheels?

'71 Trans Am rally wheel codes
 

My '71 Norwood Trans Am was built in early March of '71 and has KR's on it.

My 71 TA a Norwood 4th week January KN wheels 7-28-70 I have 2 Sets of 5 with this date

I have a 71 that was but in Van also in March and has 4 jw's on it dated 7-25

My recollection of this discussion when it's come up in the past (try the search function), was that Norwood "ran out" of JWs and switched well before Van Nuys did. Also that the JW code on the build sheet was more of an indicator of a 15" rally wheel, not necessarily that the wheel on the car HAD to be a JW. The build sheets seemed to keep the JW code for awhile after the actual parts had switched to KN/KR.

hmmm... 7-25 JWs? I have 6-25 JWs and have seen 7-15 JWs. Are you 100% sure they are 7-25s. I only ask because it seems odd that they would run a batch of 7-25 JWs and then 2 days later switch to KNs. I suppose anything is possible though.

71 TA...van nuys..
 

my 71 TA, is a van nuys car, all orig, from carb(even has the ground tang) to rear... built 12/70, has all 5 orig rims, & spare, all dated 7/28 KN,,, orig sheet shows JW, but that is not correct, atleast for this car.
hopefully some day, it might be put back togther, in a million pieces.... & able to excercise the wheels!!!!!! When/if I it lotto!!!!!!!

I had a 71 400 Formula that had the original spare in the trunk (KS) and the original owner told me that when he went to pick up the car he wanted a full sized spare and he made them give him a rally 2 to match the other ones. :cool: maybe that's how yours got there also???

I found a revision note in the 71 assembly manual dated 11/10/70 where KN supercedes the JW wheel. Without the formal "engineering change" document it would be difficult to know a definite change date, or the reason for the change. The engineering change document probably specified "use up available stock" which would mean that the KNs would come along as JWs were used up, as several above have estimated. This would point to a couple things;

- we should not see any 71s built before mid November with KNs
- the changeover date was probably a month or several months later (seems to fit)
- the changeover would have likely been different between Van Nuys and Norwood depending on how much JW stock each had on hand (also seems to fit)
- It would be possible to see some cars with a mixture during the changeover.

Lastly I see no notes or reference to KRs so I have no idea when they were introduced.

What area of the assembly manual did you find that note in? Can you scan the page? I looked through Optional Equipment N and see a note from 11/10/70, but it doesn't mention the wheels by code.

I have an early 1971 (late Aug./Early Sept.) Norwood car that came with a complete set of 7-28-70 KN wheels. I seriously doubt they are not original rims as this car was beat to crap, not restored, but is numbers matching on everything else. For this car to have had the some other codes, like JW, removed at some point wouldn't be hard to fathom. What is hard to fathom is it ending up with a complete set of KNs that have a date code that is so correct. I guess anything is possible.

I really think we need to compile some sort of list of ALL available date codes for JW,KR & KN wheels.

This is as good a place as any to START.

Anybody out there care to organize it??

I'll gladly compile a list.

Too bad the assembly manual copy I have isn't better quality. Some of the handwritten notes just don't come through well.

I'm learning more each day as I research. For example:

In the assembly manual under Wheels & Tires I.D. Codes it lists

The JW wheel was part number 482000

The KR wheel was part number 485454 - This one is listed as Firebird W/PM7

The KS wheel was part number 485455 - This one is listed as Firebird D/PM7 and although I've never seen one this is likely 14x7 instead of 15x7 (jives with information from http://pontiacserver.com/wheels.html#rally2)

The KN wheel is not listed on this page or on the web site. There are some handwritten notes next to the JW entry, but I cannot read them.

Then in the Optional Equipment N on Page 482785 it has an entry in the notes from 11/10/70 that indicates 485454 was 482000 (KR was JW).

And yet the parts book lists JW and KR as correct for 1970 through 1972. Again, no mention of KN under either of these two part numbers

482000 5.803 F/8 ..................... WHEEL (15 x 7) Rally II 5 1970 1970 5-27

485454 5.803 F/8 WHEEL (15 x 7) (Rally) (stamped JW or KR) 5 1970 1971 5-34
485454 5.803 42 WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped JW or KR) (Rally) 5 1971 1971 5-34
485454 5.803 All A, F & G WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped JW or KR) Rally 5 1972 1972 5-34
485454 5.803 All F WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped KR) Rally II 5 1973 1973 5-34

And, for the KS the parts book also says it is 14x7


485455 5.803 F/8 WHEEL (14 x 7)-- (stamped KS)-- (Rally- space 5 1969 1971 5-33

Date codes I can personally confirm from wheels I currently own or have owned in the past include

JW - 1/26/70, 3/9/70, 4/6/70
KN - 7/27/70, 7/28/70
KR - 12/28/70, 1/4/71

I can provide pictures of all these if desired. Reply to this with pictures of other date codes for validation.

After comparing these dates to 1970-1971 calendars all but 7/28/1970 (Tuesday) fell on a Monday.

1/26/70 - Monday
3/9/70 - Monday
4/6/70 - Monday
7/27/70 - Monday
12/28/70 - Monday
1/4/71 - Monday

Quite the coincidence? Maybe not. I know there are other dates out there.

In addition, I have seen the following:

JW 5/25/70, 6/25/70, 7/15/70, I think I have seen a 4/24 JW as well
KR 10/2?/70, 11/10/70, 12/29/70, 2/??/72

Thanks 68Bird.

Hey, my first car (1978) was a 1968 Firebird 350 2bbl Powerglide. I used to put in in low until I'd hit about 85 mph and then slam it into Drive and rocket up to about 135 mph. Not bad for a 350 2 bbl, huh? I've got a picture of me standing next to the old bird back in the day. I'll scan it (pre-digital era) and post it here. Eventually had to rebuild the Powerglide, but it took abuse for a good long time both before and after.

Yeah, I love both the first and second gens. Fortunately, I have one of each now.

I have a mixed set of KR's. Here's what I think I have, if I understand how to read them. I'm new to this. Please feel free to correct me, I really want to know how to do this.

2 ea. M1 07/21 (July 21st, 1971)

1 ea. M1 12/08 (Dec. 08th, 1971)

1 ea. M0 12/29 (Dec. 29th, 1970)

They are in really good shape. If any of what I have would help to correct your set, maybe we can work something out, trade, etc. I'm willing to do it provided your wheels are as nice as mine. Thing is, my cars build date is 0 9A, so I'm not really sure what date wheels are appropriate for my car. My engine and dated parts on it were made in July to mid August 1970.

Should the wheels be in that same time frame, or earlier, or much earlier? Hoping you guys can share some light on the subject. Thanks Eddie.

Just a thought guys while we're posting up information on these hard to find wheels.

Two more questions. Do all the JW,KN & KR wheels look the same? Same rare small center fabricated for a 15 x 7 rim like the 70 model?

Good catch on the KR = 485454. I misread the wheel ID for 485454 as "KN" not "KR". There appears to be no mention of KN as far as I can see, yet we know it is a valid '71 wheel.

I'm at work now and not in front of a wheel, but there should be another number there, I think.

To one side of the valve stem you will observe a stamp that will appear like "M19" with the "9" below the "1". The "9" indicates the year 1969, a "0" would be 1970, etc. Between this stamp and the valve stem will be another number from "1" to "12" which will designate the month. On the other side of the valve stem will be a number between "1" and "31" designating the day, and beside that will be the wheel code "KR" or whatever code the wheel actually is.

Your car sounds like it was built about the same time as mine (0 9B for my Norwood) and mine had the KN 7/28/70 wheels from the look of it. But, I'd think any wheel with a date no more than about 6 months before your build date would be OK. I'd avoid anything after your build date, which I think speaks for itself.

That is correct. It's a 14" center mated to a 15" rim. Not sure if all KRs up through 1973 did look the same, but I believe so.

All JW, KN, KR wheels looks the same. AFAIK, the last batch of KRs looked to be in spring '72 (it may have been the 2/72 date, not sure). For the '73 model year they developed a 15" center for the 15" rallys and the code again changed, to HM I believe.

KR's stamped 3/25/72 are the latest stamped KR's I've ever ran across & have been buying/sellng/trading for JW-KN-KRs for the last two decades. Have one 3/25/72 that has a GM parts distribution sticker on it its spine... sold over the counter as a service part. Have owned NOS JA's, JL's, & HM's with same sticker

My '72 T/A, built during last full week of '72 production (3/31/72), has 2/28/72 KR's on it. While the whole set is not original to the car (only 2 are), managed to come up with 5 that date matched the original two.

'71455HO, On a 09A built '71 Norwood car, 7/27 or 7/28 KN's would be correct. Other than 7/27 & 7/28's I've only owned one other date of KNs, they were stamped in August of '70. Believe Aug 13, but would need to dig in my old records.

The Fall of '70 UAW strike began Sept 14, 1970 & lasted 67 days. This strike shut down every GM asm plant & production of GM specific parts at its suppliers. As a result, the strike had a profound effect on the dating of parts used on late Nov, Dec, Jan, & even Feb assembled cars. It's interesting that over the last few years, parts have emerged that are dated slightly before the strike was settled. The 11/10/70 dated KR's & a pair of Canadian mfg 14x6 KU's (Paul K) I've examined, both point to rally wheels being stamped a good week before production resumed. BTW, not going to see this early startup with internal produced parts like blocks, heads, manifolds, waterpumps from GM Central Foundry.

As far as Van Nuys cars go, its become evident that Van Nuys still had a decent supply of JW's & used them well into the late winter of '70-71. Would be interesting to know how many '71 Van Nuys Formulas & T/A were built with 15" Rally wheels over honeycombs??? I bet the number is not that big with Norwood producing much higher amount of '71 T/A's & Formula's.

Have owned quite a few 12/29/70 & 12/30/70 KR's. Get a chance, will ck my warehouse for dates of JW's & KR's I have.

Are KN's the only correct wheel for a 0 9A built Norwood car. Aug. 13th 1970 is also when my Intake was cast incidentally.

All the original intact early '71 Norwood cars, I've personally examined have had KN's. There may exist an extremely early production '71 Norwood car which had JW's, but have yet to document one. If the project was mine & it was destined to be a cutting edge concours resto, I'd search out a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's & an nos set of trim rings. Short of that level of resto, repro trim rings hide the stamped dates fairly well.


BTW, my '71 HO T-37 has the 8/13/70 intake & 483637 casting block. The T was built late Dec of '70.

Trim rings? I thought T/A's didn't use them.

Optional. But not many had them...

Thanks for all the information 'ol Pinion head. This is very interesting stuff to me. Did somebody say they were going to compile all of this info / data and make it available to everybody. That would be great. Thanks to whoever you are. I know it's a lot of work to study and sort through all the post and decipher what's a fact and what is not. I feel lucky that those of you that have been at this a while are here saving guys like me a lot of heartaches down the road. Thanks a lot guys, I'm grateful.

My car has the 483637 block also, and I do have an NOS set of trim rings in their boxes. But I prefer the wheels without the rings. Now...I only need another $100K for the concours resto.
Ha, that ain't gonna happen. Anyway, I want to drive mine. I am doing the best I can though. I hope to get it back this year.

Here's MY contribution....... (obviously NOT in chronological order)

JW... 7-15, 9-4, 6-25, 1-27, 1-26, 4-27, 4-13, 5-11, 1-26, 3-9, 4-6.

KN... 7-28, 7-27.

KR... 12-30, 3-25, 5-29, 12,29, 7-21.

One of the KR 12-29's still had the GM part# tag on it,so it was sold as a service replacement part.

In addition to those, I've got/had JW 4-10, 5-25, & KR 11-9.

2manyT/A'S, being new to this and not being familiar with the start and finish run dates of these wheels for each year, are all of these one year or multi-year? Are they 1970, or a mix of all three years? It's probably obvious for those of you that have been researching this for years, but not me, not yet. Thanks very much for posting up the information though. I haven't included all of them in the list below until you or someone can clarify it for me. Anyway here is a list of what everybody has said they have, or have had, or have seen, in chronological order along with the day of the week they were stamped.

JW's: Mon-01/26/70, Thu-06/25/70, Wed-07/15/70, Sat-07/25/70, Fri-09/04/70

KN's: Mon-07/27/70, Tue-07/28/70, ?Thu-08/13/70? (maybe)

KR's: Tue-07/28/70, Mon-12/28/70, Tue-12/29/70, Wed-12/30/70
Mon-01/04/71, Wed-07/21/71, Wed12/08/71
Mon-02/28/72, Sat-03/25/72

I saw that a couple of these hit on a Saturday, Do you think that maybe the plants worked overtime occasionally to catch up, or is it just a mistake some of us made?

I'm still a little fuzzy about the correct method to interpret the date code stampings on my wheels due to inconsistencies I see on the M1 over 0 vs. the M only over 1 on my wheels. Only one of my wheels has the marking as suggested by TA455HO. It has the M1 over the 0 approximately 1 1/2" to the left of the valve stem hole. The month and day are as they should be with the (12) immediately on the left of the valve stem and the day of the month (29) immediately on the right with KR being stamped about an inch to the right of the day of the month. The three remaining wheels only have an M over the 1 with the rest of the markings being where they should be. Does anyone else have wheels with markings like this?


Note: I made a mistake on known date codes for 1971 KR wheels. Wed-07/21/71 wheel date code should have read Thu-01/21/71 (happens to be two of my four wheels).

BUMP
 

Thought I would bump this up again. I remember talking to Ole 'pinion Head and finding out I needed a set of 7/27 or 7/28 KN's for my car. My car was built one week before the big strike. If anybody has what I need, I have five KR's to trade with.

Eddie - What are the date codes on your KRs? Any interest in trading one KR for one KN? You can PM me if you want to discuss.

Chad

I have a set of restored 7-28 Kn I would sell for 1200. Dont need any Kr's. Pm me if interested

1971455HO,...so your TA is an 09A build? Are you sure it should have KN's? Some very early '71's had JW's. Even some I've docemented well after the strike, had a mix of JW & KN. I'm betting your Build Sheet would show JW also.

Ric - 1971455HO has a Norwood car so likely no build sheet unless he got real lucky. Didn't all build sheets call out JW if it was a Rally II wheel? Or have you seen examples where it lists KN or KR?

Chad

No... honestly, I'm not sure. I was just reading over some old post here and one of the members here who I'm sure knows more than I do said "all of the intact early 71 TA's that he has documented had KN's from the factory on them. That's why I thought I needed them. As to my build sheet, I hate to even think about it. I got this car in 1980. Traded a 5 window cab '50 Chevy swb P/U & $1000,00 for it off of a car lot. First thing I did was come home and start cleaning. I removed the bottom back seats and discovered some folded up papers under the seat springs. Looked them over and said to myself, "This is from when they built it at the factory, I don't need this crap"!...in my ignorance as I cleaned it up,I let the vacuum take care of them. 7 yrs later I learned what I had done. Been crying ever since. Anyway, I'm not sure what wheels are supposed to be on my car. I got a set of Honeycombs, a set of KR's and I'm talking to a guy about a set of KN's.

Eddie - Do you have the PHS docs for your car? I think it would say if they were Honeycombs originally because of the extra charge. Not sure if it says anything about Rally IIs if you got them instead, but I think it is a clue.

Man that's a great idea. I do have it and I'm thinking it doesn't show any extra cost for the honeycombs. So... is that a pretty good indicator, it came with the Rally's ???

my car didn't have many options anyway. One of them was roof drip rails, but they're not on it.

I don't think the honeycombs were an extra cost option on the TAs, so they wouldn't show on the PHS. However, I don't believe they were available until January or February of 1971, so, if you car was built before then, it would have had the rallys.

Huh, I thought the 478/PO5 Honeycombs were a $36.86 additional cost on a 22887. I'll see if I can find a better reference.

Unless Giles and Chuck are wrong this thread should help. I won't mention the coincidence.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=491775

Oops. Looks like my memory isn't quite as sharp as I remember.

Starting in 72 Honeycombs on Trans ams became a "no cost" option.

Same deal in 73 & 74,I believe.

Honeycombs for '71 were a confusing item. I have much factory literature from '71, some of which has some dealership/salesman notations on the Honeycomb option. There was obviously much confusion at Pontiac over whether they were a no charge option or extra charge or std.. To add to the confusion, Pontiac did change their game plan for these wheels at least twice, if not three times.
I'll try to give a clear outline from the literature I have.

1971 Pontiac Advance Information Ordering Guide (printed May 1970).
Trans Am, Dechromed Rally II wheels (trim rings avail.) No mention of HC's on this page, but under "1971 Wheel Covers", we see this; Code 487, UPC P05, Available at extra cost - Firebird, Esprit, Formula, T-37, LeMans, LeMans Sport, GTO, Grand Prix.
Further on, under "New options & Accessories", Pontiac called HC's Rally III wheels, stating, "available all models except Trans Am, Catalina, Catalina Brougham, Bonneville, Grand Ville. Unique Honeycomb design.

Initially, the '71 Dealer Sales Manual (printed in the summer of '70) showed HC's as std. equipment on TA's (pg. A-5). Again on pg. A-11 "Honeycomb Wheels & F60-15 white-lettered tires are Standard on the Trans Am".
Then there were several "Sales Manual Revisions" sent out related to Honeycombs & Rally II's.
Revision #6, 1-A., Under exterior standard equipment - Trans Am (2887), delete "Honeycomb wheels" and add "Rally II Wheels." The Honeycomb Wheel (Sales code 478, UPC code P05) will continue to be available as an option for all Firebird models.
1-C., Caption under Honeycomb Wheels should read "Honeycomb Wheels optional at extra cost. Rally II wheels and F60 x 15 white letter tires are standard on the Trans Am." These two revisions are dated 1/7/71.
Revision #7 dated 3/22/71 has these;
#2., Section A - Firebird - pg A-10. Under "Trans Am Suspension", add "or Rally II Wheels" after Honeycomb Wheels. This suspension system is the Formula Handling Package (Code 331) avail. on Formula models only.
#7., Section R - Accessories & Optional Equipment - pg R-7. A. Under Special Handling Package (Code 331), add "or Rally II Wheels.

Then page R-3 shows; Honeycomb Wheels with Trim Rings (Code 478 - UPC P05), 14-inch wheel size, newly styled and featuring a rugged cast-metal wheel appearance. 15-inch (with 60 series tires), standard on Trans Am without trim rings and available on Formula with Handling Package. Available on Firebird, Esprit, Formula, T-37, LeMans, LeMans Sport, GTO and Grand Prix.
The included Wide-Track Accessories Manual has the listing identical to the above paragraph.

I also have two different date salesman pocket pricing guides, which list all option prices & compatibility possibilities.
Dated 1/4/71, 478 P05 Wheels, Honeycomb..........2387, 2687...$126.38.
2487.....100.05.
2887.......36.86.
474 N98 Wheels, Rally II-(n/c on 2887) 2387, 2687.$89.52.
2487...63.19.
Oddly, the 3/1/71 pricing guide lists only tire & wheel cover options, no Rally II's or HC's.
So you can see the reason for the confusion on what was what & when in '71, for Rally's & Honeycomb's.

I have a 72 with 4 7/21 KR's and need one more for a spare. Anyone willing to sell one??

What date code KR's do you need to be correct? Do you mean 7/21/71 or 7/21/70? I have a few nice ones.

Eddie

I assume 7/21/71 since I have a 72. The wheels I have only have 7 & 21 stamped in them near the KR. see picture:confused: