new 64 catalina owner here
 

My black friday included picking up a 64 catalina 389 convertible from Turkey Rod run here in florida.

only issue is with the alternator/voltage regulator. gone through 2 alternators (autozone) and none are producing any power at the post...pretty much leaves it to the reg.

nowhere locally carries the regulator listed for the car, (including napa/autozone/discount auto/orielly/etc).

is there another more common car that uses perhaps a more common regulator? different year bonneville gto perhaps? or hell is there a more common internally regulated alternator thatll bolt in?

Thanks in advance, looking forward to gleaning this forums knowledge on old pontiacs! first one ive ever owned!

Congratulations on your purchase. If you are anywhere near the Hobe Sound area, drop me a email at [email protected]. I have a few spare regulators on the shelf. It's a fairly standard piece for GM cars 64-? Camaro, chevelle impala etc.
PS- please post pictures of the car. I'm sure everyone will want to see what it looks like
Andre'

I wish as it sucks to not be able to drive the car missing a 20 dollar freaking part, im up here in Jax.

had napa order what I believe is the correct 3 post regulator (one on the car is a 4 post, and based on comments in another thread is simply the wrong regulator for it)...its clearly a very new part...im guessing the previous owner replaced it recently and just put the wrong one on.

pic from rod run attached, will get more/better later!

on a side note...anyone know the difference between the bwd r153 and the bwd r159 regulators?

all the local parts stores list both as "compatible", but of course the one that appears to be correct (159) is not available while the 153 part is available locally.

physically they look identical based on the pics on the advanceauto website...anyone ever use the bwd r153 model successfully?

Check on E-Bay to see if you can find a solid state. There is a guy who sells them sometimes & lists all the applications. I was searching my year and Pontiac and they came up, but have not looked for a while.

Auto zone part number VR716, but it appears to be special order
NAPA part number ECH VR140, it shows they have them in the local warehouse here
Oreilly's part number R281, available within one day.

However, just what is the car doing or not doing? I assume it's not charging? This is cut and pasted from another forum since it's quicker than typing:

All of the old alternator systems work the same way, when you put battery voltage to the field the alternator will put out full output-this can be 16+ volts. when you disconnect the battery from the field the alternator will put out 0 volts. voltage can be varied by how fast the points cycle in the regulator. the actual figure you are looking for with a CHARGED BATTERY is 13.8-14.2 volts. with a low battery the voltage will be considerably higher, right after start the voltage will be higher, the voltage is regulated by the the voltage input by the voltage regulator and the time differential of open/closed points between the battery and field.

there are 2 common failure modes on a mechanical regulator
1-a break in the fine armature wire that controlls the points, this will result in 0 charge.
2-pitted points in the regulator, this usually results in the points sticking and you will get a 16+ volt charge, or just erratic readings.

checking for a bad regulator, you do that indirectly:
1-fully charge the battery and hook a voltmeter to it, it should read 12.5-12.8 volts.
2- start the car and look at the voltage on the voltmeter, it should read 13.8-14.2 volts.
3-if it reads around 16, replace the voltage regulator.
4-if it reads 12, unplug the regulator and jump from the battery to the field terminal on the regulator.

A-if the voltage jumps to around 16 replace the voltage regulator.
B-if the voltage stay at 12 replace the voltage regulator and alternator (you could just replace the voltage regulator but if the regulator was allowing the alternator to charge at 16 V and it burned out it will damage the new regulator.
these are just the rules for mechanical regulators and have no correlations to todays charging systems.

The regulator fits 1963-1968 big Pontiacs. It should only have 3 terminals on it.

If your regulator has 4 terminals on it, it won't work.

You may want to install a 1 wire alternator! That will solve your problem.

Yes its a 4 post vr installed currently. No charge at alternatorwith engine running other than battery voltage...and no change with rpm.

Is there an internally regulated alternator avail that's a direct fit/swap?

sorry, was typing earlier on my phone.

the overall situation...

car starts and runs fine...battery tests fine (under load)....it just does not charge at all.

troubleshooting done

1. replaced alternator
2. tested voltage with car running and off at battery: both identical (12.8-12.9)
3. tested voltage at alternator post: reads same as battery regardless of rpm
4. removed positive from battery when running, car dies
5. unplugged VR with car running, no change...also reads 12.8-12.9 at input into VR

and also confirmed this is a 4post (shiny cover) voltage regulator which has been mentioned in this thread, and another..and via pm...that this particular one wont work on the car.

i fully expect to get the proper 3 post VR in from napa tuesday...and hope thatll be the end of that!

one question I do have, is that even with the 4post VR on the car now, only 2 wires are used....which posts do those go on on the 3post VR...and shoudl I be using all 3? (ok I guess thats 2 questions)

took a few more pics for you...ill wait till I get it all detailed and out of the garage for some better shots.

The regulator only uses 2 wires. Is your connector still in place?

You should be able to find a 1 wire alternator @ a local starter/alternator rebuilder, but I'll bet that once you have the correct regulator, you should be fine.

Yes...connector is in place for the 4 post style....wire using the bottom and 2nd from top connector currently....nothing in top or 3rd post of 4post style. Vr is mounted so posts are facing drivers side fender

Yup!
 

I just looked @ my 64 Bonneville and that is exactly how the VR is wired.

ok and im assuming yours is a 3 post that just uses the same plug as the 4post VR?

well thatll be easy as pie...looking forward to tuesday!

Yes, you are correct.

Welcome to the PY forums!

Nice convertible!

I saw that car down there. They had it moved to the back so you must have jumped on it quick.

Was completely at the end of the day....I had given up my search and was walking back to the tow vehilce parking behind stadium when I saw it.....just got lucky I guess

Stuart, I take it that the part numbers you list are for mechanical regulators and not solid state units? Thanks.

quick question about front and rear springs.

im pretty sure the rears are shot, and the front is way too high given the rims/tires on the car at the moment.

Id like to replace all 4 as well as the shocks, but id like to keep the current rear height, and lower the front about 2" or so.

im guessing from the looks of the rear springs, they arent new =)...and given the flex in the rear suspension when you put a passenger or two in the back...they are in dire need of replacement.

im afraid of replacing with new will jack the rear of the car up, and i dont want that...searching for moog springs for a catalina brings up about 9 million different parts on ebay and the like.

Anyone know solidly a moog or eibach spring part number that will result in lowering the front and rear say 2 inches from stock?

Rear shocks also look useless and original, seraching on that comes up with a different suggestion for perhaps every different sort of shock manufacturer in existence....so ill ask my fellow catalina owners who have perhaps already gone this route!

Thanks in advance!

Go to www.espo.com. You can get their phone # from there. Call them, they will make you what you want for a decent price.

are the stock front springs linear by chance?

Is there a benefit to linear rate vs nonlinear rate springs? I would think progressive (aka nonlinear) springs would be desirable...softer with less load, stiffer and more z-axis with higher load.

ignore this, buddy had attached the VR feed wire to the ground thinking thats what it was.

plugged into the right spot and works fine (charges too)

Nice. I'm partial to the '64's.
mk

Google Eaton Detroit Spring, still bending them up old skool down in the city by where Tiger Stadium once stood.

Tell them what you have, how you want it to sit and they will make them for you.

Good luck, and keep those Pontiacs down where God and Pete Estes wanted them to be!

Find where you want it in relation to OE ride hieght and call Coil Spring specialties. They build a quality unit in house and are a supplier to other companies that retail springs. The last time I checked they were significantly cheaper than Eaton Detroit on the project I was building.

Turn around time was 3 weeks a month or so back on a custom rate and hieght application.

MIke

still workin out all the bugs, so suspension will have to wait.

after nuking my SECOND voltage regulator, i just ordered an internally regulated alternator...should be here wed.

on a side note, it appears the wiring on this car could use some SERIOUS overhauling, but mostly at the fuse box on the firewall.

im going to assume its original (ill snap a pic while im out there)...have any of you who have rebuilt these cars from scratch switched to a newer/better fuse box with blade style fuses?

any recommendations there?

ycis, IMO, simply replacing the fuse panel doesn't make it better or safer.

If you are into the car, if it looks cobbled and or melted (esp at the headlite and or ignition switch), I encourage you to consider replacing the wiring harness with a new one. Performance Years may have them available but if not have a look at M&H Wiring.

actually the wiring itself looks just fine...ie the terminals at the lights, horn, engine, yadda all look fine.

the only really shady part appears to be the connection at the fuse box in the cabin, and the fuse box itself.

we ran into an issue last night where the car had no power at all, and "wiggling" the connection on the top of the fuse box fixed it.

doesnt really give me all that much of a warm and fuzzy about the entire setup...and I personally prefer the blade style fuse boxes to these old school ones with the exposed posts anyway.

ATO fuses to the rescue. Keep us posted on that change-over because I would like to see how it's done.

Your problem description sounds like the main connection(s) at the firewall may be loose or corroded.

like most things built back then, taking it (bothsides of the fuse panel) apart and cleaning it up should be enough to fix it.

threw it on the dyno yesterday (friend owns a shop).

126hp
264tq

is the stock 389 with 2bl carb mated to a th350....just in case anyone cared!

I would love to 'baseline' my cars...it would be interesting to see how 126 hp feels as well.

Eh, i didnt really plan on modifying it (unless something broke)....he was just having a dyno day yesterday that I drove up to watch...never noticed him taking my keys off the counter and pulling it in till it was too late. lol

still "interesting"

I like the 2:1 torque to HP ratio.

i need to go back and find the dyno sheet at the shop, im pretty sure he only ran it up to maybe 4k as neither of us were sure of the limiter on this motor, and of course there was no tach on the dash.