Radiator chat & Value??? 4 core!!
 

Well maybe thinking about a aluminum radiador for my 67 GTO.My currant radiator is a 4 core,coper, approx. age is 4 yrs old.Desert core name i believe. Works great but in the staging lanes it does climb to 205.Car is 80% drag car. Still running a water pump.I know aluminum dissipates heat better. Running water with water wet installed.Whats your thoughts on this subject???Worth the effort or stay with what i have???I have factory shroud & fan installed.
What would be the value on a radiator like mine??? Think i paid like 300.00$ for it/

you'll get a lot of opinions on this subject, heres mine.

your 4 core "should" be cooling the engine just fine based on your specs i remember reading. check all other aspects like water pump, pump clearance, fan location in shroud, fan clutch, t-stat, etc etc. especially if you are running straight water with additive, sounds like something else is contributing/causing the temp issues...

but yes, an aluminum radiator will cool better than the factory copper rads. anything from super expensive big row 2 cores, or if you are on a budget the 3 & 4 core champion brandss are a great value & actually very good quality & lifetime warranty. yes they are made in china & some frown on that, but again, if you are on a budget & want better cooling they work great.

have read about many guys with 500+hp engines that use them & love them. i have the 3 core champion in my 500+hp mid 11sec firebird & it does not move above the t-stat rating no matter what condition the car is in, 90+ degree humid days in staging lanes, stop & go traffic, prolonged highway speeds etc etc.

cant comment on a gto or other make version, but on a 2nd gen bird the fit was perfect.

Great answer, Thank You, Im not running any restictors or a stat in the motor, may look into this.

There's your problem right there.

Try a T-stat. I drive my car to the lanes...down the track and back to the pits and it never gets above 170. This is with 15:1 compression, straight water and a gutted T-stat just to give it enough restriction. BTW...I have a 3 core copper radiator. Nothing fancy.

You mean he should fine tune what he has (by installing a $6 thermostat) instead of continually throwing high dollar parts at it and never getting spending the time to get them to work right????!

Novel concept. ;)

Original Hei for yrs. original intake for yrs. original top end for yrs. throwing money into combo makes no sense.Like driving a green car, makes no sense.

Some times I have no idea what you are taking about Rich.

I agree with the tstat. Or at least a restrictor. I cut the center out of a t stat and run mine that way. Works great.

Really Rich?

The green car has an original style parts store radiator (and never goes over 170 degrees in the staging lanes!), has an untouched original factory intake, an original Q-jet, factory iron heads, factory iron LOG exhaust manifolds, factory fuel lines, factory un-modified fuel tank, all of it's factory steel bumpers and body panels.

Your white car has aluminum intake, aluminum heads, headers, sumped fuel tank, fiberglass bumpers and hood. It weighs a good 400-500 pounds less than the green car and still it runs 2-3 tenths slower. That is what makes no sense!

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...8&d=1407151934

You've bn served!

X2. You can save a great deal of money and get a very strong running car by taking the times to research the known fixes out there for most of this stuff.

Water pump blade to divider plate mod has been out there for years.
Gutted Thermostat is well known.
On cars with working thermostats, drilling a couple of bleed holes in the stat to get rid of air pockets at the cross-over when the stat is closed is known..........................

So do some HOMEWORK FIRST then if you still can't figure it out bring it to the board.

Tom V.

Tom, with all do respect, been there done all that. Thank You

Did you check the timing to make sure you had enough Advance?
Did you check the carb to make sure the carb calibration was not too lean at idle.

Both can cause cooling issues (with the best radiator).

Tom V.

Ditto Rich....be sure there in no air trapped in cooling system..
If fan has a thermal clutch on it have you tried another fan??
They do go bad..;)

Pulleys
 

Do you have non A/C pulleys or A/C ones? The pulleys on a A/C car for the water pump and balancer are sized (diameter) differently than the non A/C ones. Check to see what you have. I've seen 10-15 degree drops in temperature just by changing pulleys to get the water pump turning faster.

Just buy Langer's car and drivetrain and be done with it. :D

Timing all checked out, perfect for me.
Super Duty repo pulleys
Running fully degreed balancer
Carb. runs like a bare extremely strong.
My clutch fan is new
Timing set 38 degree,s at 2800
My next thing i am looking at is loosing the front factory springs going to Moroso
You name it i probably checked it.
Springs is something i reaaly should of checked first, lol won,t help cooling!!! AkA
I believe someone not telling how much he has in his intake from SD Performance& heads!!

Alright, Rich... even though you'll ignore me, I'll try to help you yet again.

A 4 core desert cooler should have no problem cooling a mild 400. Changing to an aluminum radiator is not going to make much of a difference. If you are not running a thermostat or restrictor then the water is just cycling through your radiator too fast for it to transfer the heat out of it.

WOW Rich y do you post here. Your car is perfectly tuned. When you tell Tom V I have done all my research I have to ask were did you find the information about running no t stat or restricter in your cooling system.

He'd still be changing **** :D

Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius Prius

Strange...I have a sudden urge to go buy a Prius and I am not sure why. :D

input & knowledge my friend, something you,ll never understand.

They do make a high flow thermostat so you don't have to drill holes.

Rich. Install a big block chevy in the gto. I think no will mind here and I here the chevy guys are nicer.

Lots of crap being said the the last few post...but seriously..a t-stat or restrictor should help.

Rich, you make it very hard to help. You come on here asking the most basic of questions, looking for help on your car that is performing waaaaay below the level it should, and when people try to help you tell them they don't know what they're talking about and that you have a full understanding of the issue.

You guys are great!! Thanks for the input. Im done.

do you know what your talking about??? i don't! :bounce:

I always do!! If you great guys would look further than your noses & find out what really was going on, well you would be amazed!!!

Rich is your fan half in half out of the shroud. What size fan are you running ?? Biggest for your shroud??? They make a 21" And how many blades on fan??? They make a 5 blade. All these HELPED a ton on mine in traffic HOT-Humid weather. Just something to check into.

A car shouldnt be getting hot in the lanes because it shouldnt be running. Problem solved

X2...don't leave it running in the lanes. Put an electric water pump on it to get it cool between runs. Drive it to the lanes at 140 and shut it off.

I'm with rob. What are you taking about. Rich what really going on. Please amazes us

Why don't you just ask the Gach? :noidea:

Not too long ago, you were recommending...

Switch to alcohol, problem solved. This thread has caused me to switch to alcohol.

Rich,put in a 180 t stat with a couple small holes drilled in outer ring, or use the Moroso restrictors disc that are available. running without one does make it run warm.

6% or 100 proof??? :beerchug:

Not idling in the lanes, say driving slowly from lower end on Norwalk up to pit area, around staging area then shutting it off.( i should of been a little more clearer on that, sorry) I do have a t stat with holes i will be reinstalling.

If you are talking about the traffic jam at Norwalk. Yep,possible to build some heat there. Never could understand why they can't punch the damn run cards after you get in the staging lanes. ??
A real cluster freak IMO.
I'll shut up now.

What is your temp when you leave the pits? What is your temp after a run and your back in the pits?

It's details like this that matter. That and... are you using a mechanical water pump?

If the temperature climbs in the staging lanes (after you shut down the car) it's because heat transfer doesn't just stop real sudden like.
If you're worried about this "phenomenon"... well, aluminum heads just make it worse. :rolleyes:

From what you say, yours won't cool properly - scrap value for the brass :p

Try waiting for a little over two car lengths before moving up, and then cut power after you start moving and coast up to the car in front of you. Only thing that should get hot in the staging lanes is your starter.

^^ THIS

Rich, I think I remember telling you in a different thread (over a year ago) about when I switched from a used desert cooler to a PY 2-core aluminum downflow radiator. My engine temps dropped from 200-210 to 170-180 rock steady. A 2-core aluminum will work better than a desert cooler, if the rest of the system is working correctly.

One item on my setup that caused me problems was the use of the 8-bolt water pump. Those are much less efficient at moving water than the 11 bolt at low engine speed. I would switch to 11 bolt pump and the '70 accy system from a Lemans/GTO for better cooling at low speeds. You can keep the '67 PS and Alt bracket by using the '70 balancer and '70 AC pulleys.

Here is what I am going to do on '67 when I get it back together:
PY 2-core alum radiator
11-bolt water pump and timing cover
clutch fan with AC (not HD) clutch
fan shroud
'70 AC pulleys
'67 PS pump and alternator bracket
160 T-stat

160 temp when i leave pit area, get to staging lanes up to 185 start car couple times to move up, some idling involved, climbs to 200-205 even thru the run. 200-205 back to parling area after run.Thanks again chiphead i probably forgot about the messgae.Chiphead this last summer i switched front end of motor to 1970 stuff, pulleys and Racing balancer, water pump pulley is Super Duty repo. These are the temps. im getting.

Get an electric water pump and run it in the lanes along with the electric fan till it gets back down to 160.

I like the long drive up to the lanes to get the car warmed up. The only time I have to cool the car in the lanes is during the round robin part of the eliminations. I'm on alcohol too so that helps if I need to hold the temps where they are. I drive to the lanes on gas but if the temp gets to 160 before I get up there, I switch it over to alcohol to maintain it there. And I only run the car when it's time to move. Shut it off if the traffic jam isn't moving. I do have a griffin aluminum radiator too though. It works a lot better than the stock one.

When comparing copper vs aluminum for heat transfer, the material's heat transfer properties are overrated. It's the aluminum's strength which allows for larger tubes spaced closer together for more *total* area for heat exchanging. The more surface area you expose to cool air will cool the water better.

http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html..._vs_copper.php

http://www.cgj.com/2013/07/16/alumin...inal-thoughts/

Chiphead & Probird, Thanks for the advice!! Im listening. Cannot afford a electric waterpump right now.

Well when you can, spend that money on the electric pump first, not the aluminum radiator.