'79 Trans Am vs. Hellcat!!
 

Thought you may enjoy this. That's a great-running Pontiac. Too bad we can't see the ET's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIjsXNQIoXI

From the audio it was an 11.4 to a 10.94, half a second on the hellcow.....................:D

Yes - bring on the new stuff - Runs a Pontiac 455 - Don't know how built it is .

Pontiac power, old school, have to love it!..... Unless you just plopped down 75K+ for a Hellcat. Reminds me of when the Grand Nationals first came out and were kicking the butts of most of the old muscle cars. Fans at the drags loved to see an old carburetor muscle car beat one. We are just another generation down the road.

Good to know.

EHTTF

Like this one - Jim Mino's 68 Firebird RA II 400 kicking a Grand Nationals butt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKHFamXGxqM

If that was the 1986 Supercar Showdown, I was there. It was held at Quaker City Dragway in Ohio and that GN would have been new. Firebird looked great walking away from it although the GN was a great car for the time and we all know how fast they were modified. Had the pleasure of riding on the street in one that ran in the high 9's. Incredible, especially when you look at what a frightening pile of junk the engines are on the inside.

Yes 86 Supercar Showdown - GN's were all over the Vette's etc. but Jim Mino's 400 Firebird was the Quickest car there putting 427 Camaro's etc. on the trailer - also he was quickest for 87 too beating a Hemi Road Runner for the Final :)

For the 79 455 T/A - Any specs on the build

And I am betting the Trans AM had no "power booster" like the supercharged Hellcow. It is likely naturally aspirated. I love to see things like this.

I was surprised... maybe it's just me, but that Pontiac sounds very, very strong. Gotta be hitting close to 7K too.

I suppose the Hellcat was off the showroom stock....or pretty close. A/C. Probably no A/C on the TA. The Hellcat will probably cruise effortlessly/quietly at 75/80 all day long. Probably not with the TA. In cruise mode the Hellcat probably returns pretty good mileage. Probably not with the TA.

Good run TA!

I don't think that was a hellcat. Didn't have the hood nor the stance and I didn't see the badge on the fender and no hellcat came with chrome wheels but then someone could have been a tool and removed the perfect wheel for that car for some ghetto chromes.

11.4 isn't a SRT in stock trim. As much as those cows weigh from the factory if it wasn't a hellcat, it had some pretty stout modifications. Whey weigh well over 4000# as they come from the dealer and an as equipped from the factory ain't going to haul it that fast through the quarter.

With street tires and 707 HP they run right about where that car ran. Internet reports 11.2 on street tires, 10.8 on slicks.

SRT 392 N/A is 485 HP is touted by chrysler in their advertisement to be a low 12 second car. So the car in the video (hellcat or not) is about.8 seconds faster than a N/A 392 SRT challenger.

The hellcat curb weight is 4439#. That's only 200# less than a 71-76 Bonneville.........:eek:

Yep, and a wheelbase about the size of a chevelle. It's girth and heft deter me greatly.
Strange thing is that no one ever talks about these new car specs. They just mention the power.

Hmmm, Stock 79 TA in street trim versus Challenger 5.7 hemi, SRT, or Hellcat in street trim= No contest, would be a complete laugher. Warmed over TA compared to a stock Challenger Hemi, SRT, or Hellcat, yea could happen but what is the point.

That was a Hellcat.
There is one in my area.
I was sitting at a stoplight in my '63 GP last week.
Hellcat was siiting at corner stoplight.
He stood on it when his light turned green.
Went by me around 75-80 mph.
Did not let off tiil he hit 120-130mph.
The Hellcat Supercharger is Really Loud.

Yesterday A Tesla S Driver slowed down t give me a Thumbs up on the Highway.
Checking out my old Grand Prix.
Shaking him with 425 Olds power.
He then shot ahead like a Bullet.
Pretty fast electric car.

How about a 79 T/A Vs a 79 dodge magnum? I know who wins that one..............;)

79 dodge magnum Vs 2005 GTO or a 2009 G8 GT......................:eek:

Street Racing Is Back.

Hellcats are Here.

I've got a challenger. Great car and it rides nice and heavy too. I guess that is what makes them mind boggling is how they can get that heavy car down the track so fast. It just didn't look like one but I didn't see the times nor the Hellcat badge or hood but my screen is not great. I watched a few hellcats run down the track on Powertour last year and talked with the owner of one. I have some video somewhere. Seeing all these hellcat killers make me come back to one thing. Not one is off the showroom floor factory warrantied.

Apples and oranges comparism. If you have not rode in a Hellcat, it is Bad Ass. Sad truth is in as produced condition, no Pontiac could run with a Scat Pack off the showroom floor,forget about the Hellcat. Now I am not getting rid of any of my Indians to buy a Hellcat,but I seriously thought about it.

I think one of Mickey Thompson's SD421 Cars could take on a Hellcat and win.
Especially his SD421 Tempest.

Then there is that SD421 1963 Tempest that wss converted to a Solid axle rear with 1957 Pontiac 9.3 Rear & '57 Full size car leaf springs.
Really launch that Tempest hard at 5,000 RPM.

And I think a Ram Air II & Ram Air 4. Bird & GTO Give the Hellcat a run for its money.
100% Stock & super tuned.

My point was the Hellcow is using a supercharger to add the power, and the Pontiac isn't. That is the point.

I don't care how fast they are. I would rather walk down the street carrying an old Pontiac hubcap than drive a Dodge.:D

How about Nunzi's 4 cylinder Tempest???

Oh Yeah.
Your Right.
Forgot about Nunzi.
His 4Cyl Tempest is Bad Azz Fast.

Knock the Dicks off those Hellcats.

Haha! Used to think the same way. When I drive or race my Pontiacs, it takes me to a better time and place. New cars don't have that. I respect how much everyone on here loves there Pontiacs. I do to. I guess technology has somewhat changed my thought process. As far as a ra2 or 4 beating a hellcat ,that's not even a fair race. A good ra4,and I mean Good,(nhra comp) is about 380-390 HP as t wheels,hc is about 640. Let's say if a hellcat pulls up next to my Ra Gto,or SD bird,i ain't racing.

I see what Your saying.
Your forgetting about Gearing advantages the Hellcat does not have stock.

Most of the Record setting Pontiacs used 3.90, 4.30, 4.33 , 4.56, 4.88 , & 5.13 gears.

Streetable gearing ?
MMost would not say so today.

Many of us can't afford IA2 Blocks.
Billet crankshafts.
Custom sheet metal intakes.
495-505-525+cubes.

Stuck with 350, 389,421, 428, 400, 455 factory iron.
.
Love to do a 4L80 E trans in my 1963 Grand Prix.
A Race level Lockup torque converter is $2,000-$5000 cash.
Even a stock replacement is $600-850.

From Butler Performance - Factory Pontiac Blocks are good to 700 -800 hp :) then they recommend the IA II Blocks etc. no need for this LS Stuff

Factory LS is no better than Factory Pontiac iron.
I am referring to C5 & C6 Corvette engines .
ZO6 with Aluminium block & Heads & Titanium connecting rods.
I worked in a Race ship last year and the customers supercharged ZO6 Corvette went Bang in a bad way on Chicago expressways.
Dart NSX block to replace was $5,000 cash.
Oil pump was a special Billet part.
$900 cash.
A $18,000 cash engine build not including labor.
C5-C7 Corvettes are a REAL PIA To put back together.

Lift required .

Should not ignore LS & X.
If Pontiac Motors was around still LSX Would be used.

I work in an independent shop that services all makes. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I don't care for the "displacement on demand" feature of some of the later "LS" style engines. Have seen more than one have a "switching" lifter collapse and cause it to run off 7 cylinders and wash the remaining one down in fuel. Have to pull heads on LS engines (and late model "Hemis") to change lifters. Have seen roller wheels lock up on a few of both, wiping out the cam and the engine with it. Have also seen the steel valve seats drop out of the aluminum heads on "Hemis" and take the engine with it. After all this time, they develop an engine that is overall pretty good, then ruin it with one or two potential drawbacks.

No fan of dod. I disable on all my 5.3 trucks . Luckily the 392 manuals don't have this.

Disclaimer - I am not a racer. That said, I believe anyone here can beat a hellcat with their classic pontiac for fairly cheap. Just visit the boosted section and build a mild boosted combo, then visit the race section and learn a bit about getting the car to hook. Not "cheap" compared to a stock build, but with a factory block, forged crank, rods, pistons, factory heads, and a procharger or a turbo I would think it would not cost more than, say, 10-15 grand in the engine. Another 15 grand for a decent mid-70's F body, a ford 9 and a good transmission, maybe 40 grand you could beat one and have a nice old pontiac?

I think if you want to beat it N/A you are getting close to looking at an aftermarket block or having a not very streetable combo. I wonder how Steve C's 505 car would do against a hellcat?

Then get in it and drive it everyday in all the seasons with the climate control on in rush hour traffic both ways. Then if something breaks take that old Pontiac with all that stuff to the dealership and hand them the keys and jump in your loaner and go to work and let them do the work. And lets hope you don't get into a accident. We've all seen the old impala vs new malibu crash test video. Again, apples to oranges with any of these old car vs Hellcat topics. Modern muscle is a really cool way to combine daily driver and hobby car. Well, a '69 GTO was modern muscle back then. It has all come around. Embrace it cause I feel it will go away soon too.

Then build it right and don't wreck. I have no interest in modern cars.

Lol.

The Hellcats do have a weak link.
Its The Independent rear supension rear Diff.
Numerous reports of them blowing up.
Warranty repairs yet likely .

No, that's fine. Yes you can build it right, you have zero control over if you have a accident or not.

My whole thing is there are good people out there that want to have a fast car, want to drag race or autocross but they cannot build a old car so the modern muscle is perfect for that person. The hobby should not be inclusive of a car strictly because of it's age. I'd love to have a older hotrod that had all the safety and convenience of the old stuff. I guess I've just been conditioned to the new stuff cause of my daily drivers and work vehicles.

Yeah I completely recognize how great modern cars are from a value perspective, from a practical perspective. I just don't feel anything when I look at them or get near them. Probably feel something if I drove one of those Hellcats, though!

The Hellcat is in a class by itself I think.
No one buys a Hellcat just to run to the Grocery store & back.
Nor A Beer Run to fill garage fridge.
Pontiac is gone officially .
Corvette can't compete. Base LT4 Not enough.
C7 Z06 all will say are 80,000 only but to get one its actually $100-105 k.
And its still not enough to win against the Hellcats every time.
Camaro is a big car too.
. Under powered.

All Pontiacs are old now.

I'm definitely not anti-new car, I'm just not understanding why their pushing for such large cars.

I also do love a visceral car. I think I would do well with something like a 427 cobra kit car as a second vehicle. Spartan interior and little creature comforts are a virtue to me. Guys ride motorcycles and they don't catch any crap, but if I want a car with no AC, carpet, headliner, or radio and nothing but sticky tires and ear crushing exhaust - I'm a weirdo.

Me either. And cars of the '70s did have safety features. Try a '74 Grand Safari against the '59 Impala or the '09 Malibu. '70s cars had 5 mph bumpers, padded dashes, side door guard beams (look more like guardrails lol), padded upper door panels, rollover protection in the form of double walled steel, folding hoods, collapsible steering columns, padded steering wheels, headrests, shoulder harnesses. You could even get airbags in '74-'76 "B", "C" and "E" cars. A moot anyways. If you are driving a car from the '60 or '50s and you are really paranoid about getting killed in an accident, then build a rollcage into it, and wear a safety harness, helmet, and HANS device:rolleyes:. Not to take nothing away from new cars, but they aren't everybody's cup of tea, and I can understand why old cars wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea either. I personally don't want to drive one after working on the things all day.

As GOATWGN stated, when you work on new stuff all day, you don't have any desire to own a high dollar new car to drive home at night. As I posted elsewhere, I recently owned a 5L new Mustang GT 6-speed. A great car, a high 12 second car, 300-400 lbs lighter than a Challenger or Camaro. Nothing ever went wrong with it. 30 MPG on the highway in 6th gear at 1500 RPM's at 80 MPH. But it's a completely different sensation, boring if you will drive, compared to an old muscle car. Old cars are not for everybody. They rattle and squeak, they have wind noise, they have lousy brakes and marginal steering compared to a modern muscle car, and they are slower when comparing stock to stock. Don't care, I like driving my 62 Catalina much more than the Coyote Mustang much to the complete dismay of my understanding wife.

No desire to hijack or start an argument, but wanted to keep the facts straight on camaro vs mustang weights. Camaro is lighter than the mustang.

2016 Camaro: 455 hp, 455 lb-ft, 3,685 lbs (manual); 8.1 lbs/hp

2016 Mustang: 435 hp, 400 lb-ft, 3,705 (manual); 8.5 lbs/hp

The Camaro shed some weight with the latest gen.

No argument here about the weights of the new muscle cars. The Mustang in my family was a 2011 GT for reference. It's gone, replaced with the much more fun to drive and own 62 Catalina!. I guess my more general point was I agree with Mr. Glasco that you can't really compare the new and old muscle cars in an objective way. Stock vs Stock, old muscle cars lose in every measurable way. But we live and enjoy these cars in a subjective way. Why are these old cars so valuable? Because they have the feel and sensation of speed that the new cars simply don't deliver as you drive them. The Mustang I had delivered less of a sensation of speed at 110 MPH than the Catalina at 50 MPH. To many people that is progress and I won't argue the point. The tires alone put these new cars worlds ahead of the 14" bias tires our old cars ran on. It's just fun to see an old car put a new one on the trailer. In 1976 I drag raced a brand new 75 Corvette with my 4-door Canary yellow 4-door 1966 Ventura, 389 2bbl. 290 HP. Beat the Vette by about 6 car lengths and to this day I chuckle when I look at the finish line picture. The guy was almost in tears.

Yeah I feel the same way as I stomp the gas in my Formula that is my Daily Driver..My wife sorta gets it..
But we rattle and squeak too..

Speaking of "Old Cars" Canamman, and people talking about them rattling and squeaking, etc., I think you will agree with me (as I own a '74 Cutlass Supreme), that these '73-'77 Intermediates are some of the best riding cars ever built, and do not rattle, squeak, or have wind noise. The chassis design on these cars is very good at a combination of handling and road isolation. When I got this car from a family member back in 1988 so I could relieve my '66 Pontiac of "daily driving" duties, I just loved the way it rode and handled, to the point I modified the brakes, steering box, and geometry on my '66 to give it a similar feel. I used this for a daily driver ever since, racking up 500000 miles on it.