Fake Build sheets
 

Good thing we have PHS.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153816855774?ul_noapp=true

Guys from Orlando, wonder if he worked/works at Disney doing this kind of thing. I was at a motorcycle show a few years ago and there was an "original paint" very early Harley. As my brother and I were looking it over we reached the conclusion that it just didn't look right. Another fellow showed up and too was very suspicious. Turned out he worked for Disney and said he built 'relic'd' pieces as his job.

Incredible the amount of shenanigans on ebay these days when it comes to vintage cars. Literally half the NOS parts listed are reproductions.

I was into vintage motorcycles for many years ... not nearly the level of dishonesty. Although that market was driven by vintage Harley parts for decades, screw some of those guys and they'll come burn your house down :)

It's like when you see parts on ebay listed as NOS. Pic shows the part and the GM box but when you recieve it, you didn't get the box? Kinda makes you go, Hmmmm...

I see so many items that make the claim they were sold loose bulk in a GM box originally, so the box is not included ... when I have the very same NOS part, in it's original single serving box. I suppose some are perhaps sold both ways, but lots of these guys seem to have an absolutely endless supply of NOS "bulk" parts, not showing a bit of shelf wear.

I've gotten where my first go-to is always quality used original parts from forum members and the seldom found reasonably priced NOS still in the box or wrapped in the original wax paper.

I recently emailed an ebay guy selling a used 68 GTO/FB 400 "HO" air cleaner base that what he actually had was a standard B body, long air horn piece used on B bodies and Temp/FB 350 4bbl models .... he had it listed for $499 :) He responded with the part number ... easy enough to look up ... yep, just a basic 68 air cleaner base. Still listed with the same description and price.

often the listing will show a box in the background (ect), but no mention of the box;
The box, or the appearance of a box seems to draw up bidding;
The key is the description - if it says it comes in the original box, then hopefully you're good - if it doesn't say it, don't assume it.
I have seen people get burned because they thought the item was NOS including the box, or thought the box was original to the part.

Some of the people who have been tricked I feel for, while others, who seem to go beyond belittling (the assertion that what they have isn't authentic), I feel less sorry for...

Its not just with build sheets. I'm seeing a growing number of people looking for real nice or proper patina used parts to "fake" a survivor. With the price of real survivor cars skyrocketing it was only a matter of time con-men would infiltrate that segment of the collector car world.

I can see that- if I had a survivor car (I guess my 68 is kind of a survivor) I can understand not wanting new looking parts on a survivor car.

Now- to MAKE a survivor car is a completely different scenario

About a year ago there was a gold '64 GTO on Ebay listed as a 100% all original "survivor". There was a thread on PY about it. The seller's user name sounded familiar so I did some research. He had purchased quite a few front end parts for that car because it was wrecked. 100% all original "survivor".

In my particular case...and I can't even remember what it was...I didn't really care if it was NOS or not and wasn't looking specifically for NOS, I just noticed that pics showed the parts in the GM box and listed as NOS...So, icing on the cake...but no box when it arrived. It was something small like a bezel or something. The NOS claim definitely caused me to show a preference for his particular item as opposed to the others. So, I guess it works.

If there is a photo of a box it must come with that box or buyer protection kicks in and the seller must take it back.

Now, if it shows a box with no part number, then it is up to the potential buyer to ask all necessary questions as to whether it is the "original" box. There is (or was) a Tempest nameplate listed as NOS with a GM box. Problem is that if you looked closely you would see that the box is about a 1/2" shorter than the nameplate.

check out this listing:

Shifter ball

Really read it...
It will become apparent that it appears in presentation to be NOS, but in fact is nothing of the sort - it's almost a devious type of sneaky...

Note that he does not show the end of the box with the part number. It is up to the potential buyer to verify if that box is the "original" box with the original GM part number for that part.

Now, as far as the part actually being a GM part, that is once again up to the buyer to know his chit by the photo and pass or can expertly and clearly dispute it if he buys it and finds out afterwards.

It rarely happens to me but I have been screwed and successfully disputed it. However, I am stuck with 1 part that, even though I'm sure its a repop, I cannot 100% prove it. In these cases you just suck it up and move on.

Keep in mind that not everybody that has a possibly shady listing is a scammer. Some people have items they know nothing or not much about but list them based on what they believe or have been told. In my case with my 1 item, the seller is experienced, knows what he has and knew exactly what he was doing (scamming).

LOL

you missed it, and he got you too!

There is no part number, only jiffy marker saying "3 spd ball";
in the description it says it's an NOS Hurst ball, but the implication with the pictures is that it's a GM ball.

No, I saw the hand written words and I can show you dozens of boxes like that with the real deal parts inside. One should never go off of what is written on a box. I scored some good deals that way.

The seller putting "3 Speed Ball" on the box does not cover his ass.

I get what you're saying but he could be forced into taking it back.

Repro build sheet= straight up fraud, IMO. No other reason to have one.

Not necessarily, My 77 had been gone though a couple of times before I bought it, so no dice on the build sheet. I would very much like to have one for it just because, nothing nefarious. Although I am not sure I would want it to be weathered and come with a couple of rusty hog rings! That kinda thing does sound shady.

Build sheets add value whether real of fake and if its fake its fraud.

Fake Build Sheets
 

I ran into this issue of fake build sheets a couple of years ago when searching for a LS 6 Chevelle. Lucky for me I got lots of help from Dale the guy that runs the LS 6 registry.
He looked over build sheets for me via e mail and spotted numerous fakes.
Some of them from Classic car places on e bay.
It was very discouraging weeding thru all the thieves'
I finally found a unrestored original in Ohio and got Dale`s blessing on all the paper work.

So yes we are very fortunate to have Jim Mattison & PHS..

I reported him.

Funny how these novelty items are geared towards the undocumentable cars.
I'd like to see some honest to goodness novelty stuff, at $175 that novelty is lost.

Kind of a hijack..... but when my 69 Firebird was being cloned into a TA at the body shop someone stole the vin# thinking it was real. Is there a source for this? I doubt. None would get upset about a replacement bin on a 350 2bbl car

It won't get you anywhere. I've reported people selling VIN tags and titles and those either sold or played out to term.

Evil Bay has rules but they make no effort to follow them because its all about the money.

These kind of "services" exist because there is a market for them. The fake "barn finds" are even more upsetting to me than a fake or "tribute" car. Why? Because they represent the ultimate in laziness in the car hobby IMO. Here I have this old, neglected, POS car that's been sitting around here for 40 years that no one has paid any attention to and is worthless, but as of today I am going to proclaim it an amazing "barn find". I am too lazy to fix it up, get it properly road worthy, and look presentable, so I will make this proclamation, create a fake back story, buy some dated trinkets to throw on it, and now to complete the story, for $175.00, I have the "original body broadcast sheet with hog ring rust". Now it's extra super cool!

I can't say it was my action that made eBay react, but when I follow the link today it says "the listing has ended." It takes no effort to report these things, so there's no reason to stand by and do nothing.

Good for you. One less scam for now. Appreciate your efforts.

I copied this to the Chevelle Forum. Apparently this guy has been doing this for quite sometime. Has a number of eBay sales going on for different makes

that is good ol Jim Cleamans famed for fake build sheets, window stickers POP and other GM paper work. been doing it for more then 40 years. MANY MANY stories on him and his work on the internet.

I would love to get a repro broadcast sheet for my cars as I have not found the original ones. I have a repro window sticker in my Judge. However I understand a lot of people would try to say the repro ones are the originals. Marc.

My GTO is a survivor .... it survived all the stupid modifications I made to it, a couple of wrecks, years of abuse and neglect, and three crappy paint jobs ... so it's definitely a survivor :)

It's not so much the build sheet being fake...The real danger is making a realistic looking document to help authenticate a fake car.

First noticed, the ebay item posted in the first post was NOT a broadcast sheet/aka build sheet, it was small sheet for upholstery. Not really sure why anyone would even be interested faking or in blowing $$$ on buying such a piece, it proves nothing important as far as how a car was assembled. Do agree reproduction build sheets, ESP very well printed out ones would be horrible for the hobby. One of the great reasons for restoring extremely rare Pontiacs musclecars is we have PHS.

Next, Ed (OG68 ) mentioned a long time Chevrolet pariah from Lubbock TX. Fake build sheets, fake P-O-P,s, made up tank stickers for early Vettes, SBC & BBC recreated high horse blocks. VINs (supposedly freshly created ones), just a lot of really BAD MOJO coming out of there, for decades.... :( Back in the early 90's, it was pointed out to me @ the old Pate Swapmeet who this character was. A few years later, a local with very deep pockets called me to help authenticate a '70 LS6 Chevelle SS convert project he had put a deposit on. Long time Chevrolet collectors knew of this creation, complete with factory alum heads, one of the points that tipped off the knowledgeable. After a few phone calls with a few very educated sources, my advice was "do not buy it". A year later the exact same "LS6 Chevelle SS" convert project went across @ Barrett Jackson with, of course, a bunch of "documentation". Can't remember if it sold or not, but it was very evident to those in the know what "LS6" Chevelle convert it was.

As far as the above trim (upholstery) sheet being a Clemmen's recreation, who knows if there is any correlation . One thing for certain, if you search his name, you will notice an obituary, as it appeared he died last Fall.

This is the problem. Like I said before I would like to have one for my car just because, but I can see these kinda things being lethal when it comes to the difference between a run of the mill Chevelle and one worth $100k+