Hydraulic Roller Lifters
 

Just reading the other post on lifters has anyone tried the New Comp Cams Evolution Hyd Rollers with the cartridge and where they might be coming from? It sounds like it is an interesting design and quiet, we will see!

Part # CCA-85701-16
COMP Cams®Evolution Hydraulic Roller Lifters are the first lifters EVER created using the newly patented Hydraulic Cartridge Technology (HCT)! This revolutionary design offers the most reliable performance of any lifters in the aftermarket.
.842 diameter; 2.475 seat height
.150 travel / preload between .050" to .100"
Will not clear factory valley pans

I asked the same question a while back. Got no response and went with Johnson lifters instead. It seemed like there just more success there.

I like the concept too.

Did you buy a set to try??

Not sure if they have shipped any yet?They look like the old Shaver lifters made in SoCal but with the insert.Tom

This is what they look like and I haven’t had any time with them that is why I asked. I have 2 projects going right now so more info would be good. Thanks guys!

Jim

Exactly like the Comp Shaver lifters out side.Note the lifter body does not go much past the roller pin.Tom

Thread about them here : http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...93#post6327193

I was told by someone a very reputable Pontiac engine builder that the best hyd roller for Pontiac currently on the market are made by Johnson Lifter, not Hy-Lift Johnson but Johnson. They are expensive most would not be willing to pay that much for lifters, but you get what you pay for.

I can’t see why they will not clear a non EGR factory valley pan.
They don’t look overly tall to me!

What am I missing here?

I mean I can see a issue on a 301 motor for sure!

Was told by my comp rep:
They are based on the comp solid lifter .
they are about .200" taller.
They have a .750" roller as opposed to the .700" dia. used on the convential roller lifter {857-16}.
The adjuster is removable due to the taller lifter body.
Available soon 2-3 weeks.
Priceing $ 90+ more than 857-16 (WD price sheet) actual price could vary.

Standard pushrod seat height

That all sounds pretty good Ken. I especially like the bigger wheel

a bigger wheel will change duration on the same lobe as a smaller wheel ?

If I had to guess, which is what I'm gonna do, I'd guess NO. Pushrod will change lengths.

A lot of benefits, no downside I'm aware of.

One Billy Godbold talks about is the lobe constantly trying to push the lifter back and move the camshaft around as it climbs the lobe, so the bigger wheel you have the less pressure angle you have and more force going straight up the pushrod, so less goofy stuff happening in his words.

a larger wheel is in effect like putting a wider lifter on a flat tappet cam the lobe will come in contact with the lifter sooner in rotation and leave contact later, and thats duration

So what are you saying? or are you answering your own question?


Yes or no! :)

stating the obvious but looking for confirmation or an explaination to the contrary backed by IQ. not a guess i can get that from my dog

IQ Now your just showing your true colours. Lol.

It would take a very special cam for wider lifter to have any effect in a sft situation.
A larger wheel will get the valve opening sooner and closing later with a roller cam.
With a sft, with say a .842 lifter, as long as the cam is making contact inside the edge of the lifter circle how could a larger lifter make a difference. ?
A sft cam would have to be so large as to dig into the edge of a .842 lifter for a .904 lifter to be of any use. Never heard of it being done either.

the main point of my comment was roller size change on the same roller lobe effect on duration it could be very little as .700 to .750 isnt that drastic of a roller change iam not thinking duration would change much either

in theory as its obvious you couldnt actually do this in a pontiac if you changed the roller size to 1 inch it would be rolling up the ramp earlier and or faster in the cams rotation and that translates to duration


to possibly understand what iam saying take it to the extremes a roller lobe under a razor blade the ramp has to travel further to get under the blade to lift it conversely put a roller lobe under something as big as a tire the tire would be elevated a longer amount if degree lobe rotation

thus a change in roller diameter has to effect duration of tappet lift catagorically

i never said it would be earth shaking game changing from .700 to .750

I'm more surprised that no one is asking about possible longevity affects or possible better durability affects given the fact so many here are scared of rollers. I'm not even the least bit concerned a .750 wheel may add about 1 degree of duration over a .700 wheel.

I have always wondered what a good cam guy could do with a sft 55 mm cam and .904 Mopar lifters in a IA2 block. Cam would be very expensive and who knows if the oil band would line up.
But with that big circle of the 55mm and the .904 lifter you would think a good cam guy would be able to take advantage of it vs a std. journal cam and .842 lifters.
Would make a nice high end street or bracket race engine with the right parts. And no needle bearings to worry about. Billet ft cam would have a hard time going flat.

I was thinking that the quality control issue that is heard about on here and seen and heard, with its sloppy fitting metering and noisy lifters via QC. These new lifters have a sealed plunger which should eliminate the noisy, sloppy-fitting plunger and now it's just a mechanical movement of the lifter following the cam. Am I wrong in seeing it this way? Please share that the Shaver lifters at one time were pretty good lifters if I remember correctly.

I was just asking if anyone else has actually used them yet and what their opinion was. I have purchased them already and will share my experience with them when I do get to my build but I have a full plate right now and don't know when that will be!

Most of the hyd roller issues come from street driven cars.The cost is already too high for street engines IMO.Tom

$670 doesn't seem out of line. Isky is over $800 and Comp's short travel lifters are $720. Even Comps standard hydraulic roller retrofit lifter is $600. There aren't many that are even under that price point anymore. Some are $900 now.

Everything is expensive right now.

I personally see little benefit to installing a Hydraulic roller camshaft in a "street car"
(that actually is run on the street) with a non-oem lobe profile.

So agree with Tom S, the cost is too high as well as the failure point too low if the vehicle is driven much.
But, there are some who take trips with the stuff. Some designs are more robust vs others.

My only failure of a Pontiac valve train part was caused by a failed aftermarket lifter after a long trip.
I had to tear down the whole engine to clean up the metal in the engine from the failure.

Not a fan of modifiers making the roller cam parts in their rented out shop in the Detroit area. Too many issues for me.

Tom V.

These have been available for several months now. I got one of the first sets back in January. I had to wait on some other parts, so just recently finished the motor and got it on my test stand. I used HS 1.5's and 8.800" pushrods. There was a tiny bit of noise with 1/2-turn preload. Pulling a few rockers, the contact pattern was a tad past center. I took the preload to 1-full turn, and the motor doesn't make any noises that my stock rocker HFT 455 doesn't make.

https://youtu.be/r6veuoS6vqY

I'll probably use a set on a little pump gas SBC I'll be doing.

I originally had a set of Morel HR lifters for my motor but before it went together, Butler got the new Johnson (not Hylift) reduced travel (.093) lifters in stock so I got a set. I only have a couple hundred miles on the motor so far but I'll say that at least they are VERY quiet.

Just because I have a hyd roller cam in my drawer im going to try a set of the Comp Evolution hyd rollers in my next build.Tom

Tom,

Which Roller cam do you have? Looking forward to knowing the outcome!

Jim

Clay Smith 234-246@50 on a 112..348-360 lobe lift.Tom

Sold my 0.442" roller for peanuts. Cost of springs, Lifters, pushrods, bore bracing is stoopid for Same or less DURATION to what Flat Tappets i've been running now. More duration would be interesting, with the "improved idle", but I got too much cam as it is now.

Dave Vizard has a recent video showing the flat lifter is capable of more lifted area under the curve up to 0.200" all day long, without devastating sideloads. Thus more TQ, HP. High-Rev maybe not addressed.

After 0.200" lift the Higher Duration Rollers can open the valve quicker than the big duration Flat tappet.....but go figure that Duration and "quicker" matter at Opening and Closing.

Longk ago, I ran parameters on Roller and Flat and concluded we need >.951" or Mushroom Lifters to advance optimal HP Street/Strip with good BSFC.

Leave Rollers for > 469 CID Race going beyond RPMs that Street drivers ever need. My 68 GTO will pull strong ( like the strongest in rush-commute with the fancy cars) when cruising set at 2500 RPM at 75 MPH. Like a friggin ping-free slingshot in OD to 100 MPH. Go figure what 5000 RPM brings.

1 fella (an executive) at work had a 100 hp/cyl 4-CYL and we talked about the driving culture on that main highway. He says its nuts but admits he takes the offramp at > 100 MPH. A buddy would take his VW Turbo-Diezel wagon at about 90 (me in it). The GTO could muster pretty well in the 80s. i never got a good read as ya gotta watch the road. Seen many vehicles that left the road on that offramp. Huntsville has its speedsters and wrecks.

Oh, cams, duration and rollers: What Duration roller is better than my cam mentioned in the Low-Compr Signature below, and remains Ping-Free?

Me too. Let me know if ya beat me to it. I'd be happy to share my experience as well when I get to it.

I’m just getting a 455 out of the shop.Need to get it on the run stand and off to the restoration shop.Then the block will go to the shop.Tom

I'm think about calling Ripley's Believe it or Not....
Tom is building a run-of-the-mill Pontiac 455!!!

I have built 2 455s with STOCK 48 heads!My next build will be my FIRST round port engine ever!Tom