Factory Valley Pan - RTV Or Gasket?
 

What is typically used on a factory valley pan these days? RTV or a gasket?
Thanks?

RTV is the only thing i have had luck with.

In 1973 GM/Pontiac was one of the first manufacturers to use RTV as a gasket replacement. That application was for the Pontiac valley cover gasket.

I always bought GM gaskets from the local Pontiac dealer as it was usually cheaper, and you didn't end up with a bunch of unused gaskets that you threw in a drawer. or set on a shelf. In 1973 I went in and asked for valve cover gaskets, and a valley cover gasket to repair a 69 GTO I had recently purchased. The parts man handed me 2 valve cover gaskets, and a tube of black RTV with a GM part number on it. I of course inquired where my valley cover gasket was, the parts man explained that GM had superseded the RTV for valley cover gaskets.

Long story short, I used the RTV. and haven't used a valley cover gasket since. It's kind of like the chevy guys never use end rubber seals for their intake gaskets anymore. The RTV is superior to the gaskets IMO, so I'll keep using it.

:2cents:

I used rtv on my 461. Then I had a lifter ticker. I changed it in car. It was a bear removing the valley pan. I reinstalled it with the cork gasket sealed with petroleum jelly. Then another lifter failed. (Then replaced them all.) Glad I didn't have to fight with rtv again.

I use a gasket for the same reason - definitely don’t want to distort the flange during removal.

I’m a gaskets guy, it comes apart easier and less clean up if needed

Prying off a valley pan that’s been glued down with the Right Stuff or similar without a gasket will usually cause you to bend the crap out of the pan getting it off, ruining it in some cases.

The gasket is far more forgiving in that respect and seals just fine using the proper method.

When your working on your daily ride and it’s Sunday night at 10:30 and your mocking up how your intake sits on your milled heads and it does not with all the gaskets and pan in place then you do what needs to be done.
IE remove the pan gasket and use RTV to get that last needed ,035” of clearance. :-)

There is absolutely no need to use right stuff, as I said, GM substituted black RTV, and later on GMS red RTV. I never use right stuff because it is really difficult to remove.

I've taken dozens off in dealerships, as well as my own, and my customers. I guess if you use hammers for tools then you might destroy a valley pan. I've never bent one, but I guess if you use right stuff, you could possible bend one.

I've used RTV on all of my race engines, and if anything, a race engine is going to come apart much more often than a streetcar is.

In the late 70s and 80s GM used RTV on every engine they made, on all the valve covers and oil pans, not right stuff. Never had one iota of trouble removing engine sheet metal from any of them............:noidea:

And regret glueing it down when you try to pull the pan later on to investigate some issue…. :pound:

I am so glad I amuse you, but I Never regretted it!

With a new single edge blade or a carpet knife with and new blade and and standard size screwdriver I would have it popped off in 30 seconds with no damage.
You just need to know what your doing.

Okay then the next time you’re ready to do a 30 second removal of a valley pan we’ll be here to see the video of you performing that.

So we can all learn how it’s done.

Fair enough?

Sure thing.

Suum Cuique
 

I used a gasket all of the times that I installed the valley pan. If there comes a time when I cannot get a gasket, I will use RTV.

To each his own.





Que Sera Sera

The reason I asked…
Getting all my parts ordered. It appears that whomever did the engine work on my Firebird more than likely used nothing but RTV because they ****ily squoosed it out everywhere making a real ugly mess. Same for the thermostat housing. It all fits with how the “romp em stomp em” big arse cam was chosen for an otherwise stock engine, torque converter, rear end, and exhaust. If it sounds “tough”…..then it is. Hand me that next tube of Permatex. Probably a kid. We’ve all been there I reckon.

I have done it both ways... sometimes you need to get the intake off of the cover so gasket omission works in that case with just RTV.
Sometimes i skim coat the gasket with RTV.

A bent cover lip can easily be tapped with a mallet to get back to normal its not the end of the world, done it many times and you would never know it

if it looks like it was removed with a grenade you would be lacking the skills required in the first place

I'm a gasket guy. Just makes life easier later on.

I had trouble with the bottom edge of the RPM intake flanges hitting the valley pan. I had to clearance the intake and use RTV on the valley pan to get enough clearance for the intake to clear. I used a thin stream of black oil proof RTV, and it sealed up very nice. It will take some careful work to get it apart again, but at least it's leak free in the meantime. I wish I could use the gasket, but sometimes it just won't fit in there.

I use a combination of the methods described in this thread. #1: I DO NOT use "Right Stuff", rock hard RTV on anything, especially sheet metal parts. Although it may seal, it is nearly impossible to remove and bends and destroys thin sheet metal, like valve covers, oil pans, Chevy front covers and such. I have also had it crack and break thin castings like rear seal carriers on LS engines and various flimsy thin castings on import engines. Even castings with factory pry points for removal. It creates many more problems than it cures. On Pontiac valley covers, this is how I seal them. I install the cover dry with no gasket or sealer first. Then I use a shot filled plastic hammer and carefully massage the flange all the way around to get a consistent gap or fit. Then I use some 3M weatherstrip adhesive, a small amount to stick the cork gasket to the valley pan so it stays put. Next I put a very thin coat of regular RTV, Permatex Ultra Black is nice, but I use VALCO. I spread it with my finger, very thin, .015", .020". I put a small blob in the 4 corners. Next I lower the cover in place. Finally, I put a small amount of RTY under the head of the 2 attaching bolts and tighten then up. I haven't had a valley cover leak in decades.

I hate oil leaks and this method works well for me. FelPro says my method is improper and you should never put RTV on a cork gasket. But it's hard to argue with success.

Would the “valve cover gasket” method work/apply in this instance? Adhering gasket to valley pan, then on block side use grease or whatever, to seal it.

I’ve read about that, in the past never applied it, was a careful RTV guy, and of course had weeping here and there.

Or, is the valley pan a different animal in that there’s multiple parts/seams - block and heads - it seals, unlike the VC which has a nice uniform surface it rests on?

One thing to remember with all this is when installing aftermarket parts like the Tomawhawk valley pan and/or an aftermarket intake, make sure you dry fit the parts first and clearance areas as needed. The flange on these pans often interfere with the aluminum intakes and prevent good port alignment or bolt holes from lining up. It would suck to “glue-in” the pan and have to remove it to clearance it.

For me using RTV on the valley tray or valve covers always resulted in bad tendencies for extra to get sucked into the oil pump pickup. The Right Stuff does much better and has a much higher modulus of elasticity for those things, stretch’s without leaking and bonds to itself, keeping extra that squishes out up were it was used to seal. I prefer to use it on aluminum valley covers, it seems to be much more resilient for leak prone areas. However, on a stock valley tray my favorite method is a cork gasket glued to the valley pan with Indian head shellac gasket compound. It was obviously meant to use on Pontiacs. :)

I always use RTV in the areas where the block, heads and pan meet, so the removal isn’t as easy as a valve cover for me.

I use the cork gasket with a very thin film of ultra black RTV just to aid in sealing, nowhere near enough to ooze out. Same for most other gaskets. When its just a very thin film it is easy to remove & usually is reusable at least 1 or 2 times, any residue on the block surface peels right off with a rag & brake cleaner or even just your fingers. I have reused V/C cork gaskets 4 or 5 times that way.

Also agree with the comment that these parts should be dry fitted first to verify no clearance issues, I had to grind a little off the Tomahawk pan to clear the underside of a factory iron & HO aluminum intake... but the felpro VP gaskets have 4 notches in those areas to use as a pattern, it must have been an issue on some factory pan/intakes too if they notched the gasket, but its only like 1/16 that needs clearance in those areas so not a big deal.

I have never personally tried that, using grease. On valve covers, I glue them in the covers with weatherstrip adhesive, just enough to hold them. Then on the head side just install clean and dry. Every now and then a little RTV may be needed if there is a little weeper. The idea of applying grease and sealer in the same area just never seemed right to me. I have however used a little grease on Holley bowl and metering block gaskets in the past. But for the last 20 years or so they have come with an anti-stick coating already on them.

Not sure what you mean-

“The idea of applying grease and sealer in the same area“

What I read before is similar to what you do, gaskets glued to valve cover, then head side is either dry or some form of grease, wanna say hi temp wheel bearing. Not slathered on, I guess thin skim coat with fingers.

That's what I did. I dabbed black rtv on the corners, and two other spots on each side. I then coated the head side with petroleum jelly. I had to spend a little time trimming the gasket for a better fit. The first assembly when I used only rtv I still had to clearance the bottom of the intake runners.

Back in the day of covered wagons when the only aftermarket heads were Wenzlers, we only had D and O port heads. I had a set of 71 HOs that has maybe .080" milled from them for compression. Ended up using RTV due to the corners wanting to leak using gaskets.

I run a Nightmare SS valley cover. Gasket with contact cement between it and cover and a little dab of RTV in the corners.
No leaks, perfect.
I finally have a Pontiac that does not leak a drop and it took a fair amount of effort.
I stopped using RTV on cork for the most part. Permatex #2
But my Steffs pan is sealed with The Right Stuff. Teflon scrapper so there is no gasket except for the rear main cap where I used 2 of the cork gaskets side by side and thin layer of TRS.
When I remove it someday a razor knife down the sides will take care of that hard Right Stuff.
I will take my time though, expensive pan.

I use a gasket. I glue it with rtv to the pan and let it dry. never had an issues. easy to remove pops right off