Anyone have a 1964 Special Equipment order sheet ?
 

I have them for other years - but can't recall ever seeing one for 1964

It will have the stuff like HD Frame , Metallic Brakes , and hopefully Close Ratio M21 ,,,
depending on it's date of revision.

April 64 is "supposed to be" when M21 was going to become available.
Dick Bonske and I are on the hunt for any 64 M21 hard data.

Anyone have PHS on a 64 GTO with 76X8 code , or a Block stamped 76X8

This is a 1965 version
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1765354215

'9' was the code for close ratio tranny?
(on the engine code)

:confused:

I guess '8' is correct also.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765372296




:)

John, that old chart is flawed .
Do you know it's origin ? PHS uses that glossary - did they assemble it ?

8 is the M21
9 is the special M20 for 3.90 (with correct speedo gear)
John V. schooled us on this years ago

I also think 702 is wrong.
PHS sheets are blank in box 70 for standard axle
70-1 for saf t track
70-3 for saf t track 3.90 cars
Leaving 70-2 to be special order ratio

Bad manners to cross-over year models , but here is my 65 M20 3.90
Code 703 axle type
Code 71P ratio
Code 779 trans type

Keith Seymour's Dad's 65 was ordered with M21 3.90
His is Code 778 trans type

On the 1965 Spec Eqpt sheet I posted - Close Ratio is 77-8

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1765378613

I don't think PHS even has the Special Equipment page for 1964

Not too long ago a Black 64 GTO 1-owner on BaT had a Special Equipment option of HD Frame Rear Crossmember
They didn't provide a Spec Eqpt sheet with his PHS to decode it.

They had a bulletin in 1964 that either stated , or was dated , April for release of M21 .
Dick B. ordered his 3.90 axle car in April and his dealer didn't have any criteria for M21 .
He got the special M20

yes, it is a PHS breakdown I think. It was with a bhc and docs for it.
(in pics don't know who's it is)


I don't have any other copy of the option sheets like for the special equipment other years have.


I also haven't seen a memo on the M-21. Haven't check all my other stuff, it's all in storage right now.


:confused:

Does anyone know what the code for tranny with 'FP' is for?
I found a broadcast sheet for Fremont GTO with that and no clue what it is for?
Think it has 3.90 gear.


:confused:

I've never been complete full speed on all the 64 document stuff.
They weren't one of my high favorite cars.
Will see if I can help figure that out John.
Can you make out a billing date on it ?

Went internetting a while last night for various 64 manifests.
The glossary is definitely wrong about two M21 tranny's , for any year.
Found two 76-code engine / P-code 3.90 / 9-code M20 / cars built before April .

Found oddballs like TriPower 3spd Posi , and TriPower 4spd Non-Posi

And that was bad manners crossing over years.
64 did use code 70-2 on Non-Posi car manifests. Found numerous of them.

Even found one that was 70-8 or 70-9 (performance axle) that I need to find again.
E-code 3.36 ratio

They didn't use a 701 as singular code.
Either coded as 702 , or 703


In 1965
701 - saf t track
702 - Special Order Axle/Ratio
703 - Spec Order saf t track

Some 65 coding will cross over with 64 , some do not.

No date on it, but by the VIN should be around mid June. (F034xxx)


Board is very out of funk today.


:confused:

X 100000

If you can get a clear copy , try posting it.
It might not be Fremont

They spell it out , have date and block code and EUN.
Although this 78X M12 3spd is printed as 78XW

Code FP for M12 by this manifest.

Axle code K0 = 3.23 peg leg

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...size=620%2C413

Going to post up any unique or oddball samples I find along the way here.

77J , 3x2 Auto Posi with 3.36 (code E) and Speedo Adapter - Fremont
Looks like some plants DID use { 1 } code for Posi aka 70-1 ,,,,,,, aka E1 axle code on this car.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...k42G64giw&s=10

76X9 PMD car dated June 15 1964
779 M20
76 engine
701 Posi

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...cRFqp89Og&s=10

Looks like Fremont labeled about all manual cars as _ _ XW engines.
This one should be X9 or maybe even X8 , Fremont is wacked.

Dated April 10 1964
TriPower 4spd 3.90
Trans Code - looks like JP - going to keep an eye on that code
Axle Code P3 - 3.90 posi { back to 70-3 posi details - we are all over the place with 64 differential coding from plant to plant }

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...G7scBr2-g&s=10

Basic M20 car from Fremont
78XW engine

Note the different transmission code KP - versus the 3.90 car tranny code JP
Axle K0 - 3.23 peg leg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...yHh3dTf5A&s=10

This is the sheet, weird one.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765485249




Engine 'code' if that is what it is shows '85'?


:confused:

Yep
85 engine is 4bbl manual
83 engine is 3x2 manual

84 is 3x2 Auto
Guessing 86 will be 4bbl Auto

2K axle ..... is different format than the Fremont manifest
Going to say 3.23 peg leg
Using the 70-2 glossary code versus manifest 0 code for peg leg.
Shet is going everywhere on them.

Very weird car - delete GTO emblems

PMD 76X9 car . Dated March 27 1964
3x2 4spd 3.90
Billed prior to proposed April M21 availability , so definitely M20

Just smacking the stupid glossary misinformation with this one.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ivK6-1DTn&s=10

Here are 4 that I have around that time period:
(you may have these already)


The p182640 I had as maybe fake? So probably came from here?


:)

That 78X9 4bbl 3.90 car is a unique one.
I don't think there were any ordering restrictions on 4bbl 3.90 M20 version.
- Have read that ,,supposedly,, the 3.90 M21 version did require TriPower engine.
- Not sure if that is completely true.

Mickey Craig was a long time GTO aficionado in NC from Day 1.
He claimed his Dad bought him a new 64 3x2 M12 (3spd) 3.90 peg leg car in 64.
Couldn't hardly accelerate -- it just wanted to spin that one tire effortlessly.
Traded it in 65 and ordered a Black 65 exactly how he wanted it.
Tarheel Tempest owns the 65 now and all the original paperwork , Mickey has passed on.

We have definitely proven the case against the misinformation in the PHS transmission code glossary.
That misinformation has created controversy too often.

I was tracking 1965 3.90 axle cars for a while.
Surprisingly the M20 : M21 take rate was about 50/50
I thought the M20 would be much lower take rate.

The two M20 Codes from Fremont might help to find a sheet with a 3rd (M21) code.
JP - M20 3.90
KP - M20 Standard

FP - M12 3 speed

If John V. pops in here , he probably already has all this sorted out.
He is dialed into 64s better than anyone and has a very large pool of documented examples.

Code 9 / JP M20 is using 17 tooth speedo gear (3.90)
Code W / KP M20 is using 19 tooth speedo gear (3.23)

Code X / FP M12 is using 19 tooth speedo gear (3.23)

Code J / SP M31 is using {35} tooth speedo gear - with an adapter for 3.36
3.23 must have been it's top limit w/o an adapter

In something I googled up , from here I think , said Code 9 used a 6 tooth gear.
That must have been a typo error.

Mickey Craig's 1st car must have been the Code H , 3.90 peg-leg

He talked like he didn't pick out anything on it.
His Dad ordered it and gave it to him for graduating.
I think it was White .Tarheel T would remember.
Cool Dad either way . It was TriPower.
Mickey ordered Black on the 65 replacement , so he must not have even got to pick the color on the 64.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765520605



64 4bbl Auto with 3.08
Axle code D0
* 41* tooth Speedometer Gear
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Kak3eUNuw&s=10

here's the P.O.P. for the post 15 sheet: (F021774)


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765540089


:)

I'm using Google image search to find prospects.
Seems like an endless supply of them , majority are Fremont and PMD with sparse KC .
Don't think I am hitting any Baltimore cars.

The way KC manifests are done , we won't be able to distinguish with full certainty whether a 3.90 car is M20 version or M21 version.

I go through them for periods of time , at different times , until it makes me drowsy.
It's like searching for a 68 RamAir ll BHC or TA convertible invoice.

BVZ, I found this one, had it as a 1963? :(


You may have it too, it's Wanger's 64 GTO.


If anyone got the M-21 it would be him? Nov 2 though.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765658300




Notice the '5' added? I think that was for the NEW? M-21.
(think '3' was the other M21)


:)

The 5 was added in the tire code box.
3L was 3.23 posi with metallic brakes aka 42:13 memo
70-9 is an offbeat axle designator but have seen a couple others coded that way in past few days of searches.
= Performance axle ratio with Posi ( :rolleyes: 3.23 .... ok )

64's are a messy bunch of codes from plant to plant

Like you said , too early for M21
Was this the "red ringer" 421cid magazine test car ?

John V. could probably tell which tranny if we find a 3.90 example from Kansas or Baltimore.
I don't have their tranny code glossary . It's different.

Another L code 3.23 posi with metallic brakes from PMD.
70-3 this time versus 70-9

Read something once about 3.55 was standard with manual at one time in 64 , and 3.23 was standard at another time in 64.
Maybe Wangers car was during the 3.55 period , but he wanted 3.23.
pure guess towards the coding.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765665937

found this surfin the net

The 64 4bbl Auto with 3.55 posi is pretty unique.

The Deadwood SD TriPower car , I can't find anything on option #691.
Looks like it was initially billed as 3L axle - 3.23 with metallic brakes.
Then corrected to something else.

I have a note on a 691 as being for Saf-T-Trak in 1962 I think. (not sure if verified)

But that crossed out 'Positract' on the sheet would be a Chevy item? Maybe they corrected it for Pontiac number?

:confused:

Well, I guess Fremont did use 'Positract'.
:(


Here is some more ideas: (plus the 62 sheet for the 691)

691 is just going to be a mystery for us.

HD Fan is another one. There has to be a Special Equipment Sheet that no one seems to have.
K08 on Fremont Manifest , 644 on PMD manifest
Can't find a listing for it on any sheet we have.

Thought maybe it could be grouped with HD Radiator
But have a Fremont Manifest for 3.55 axle car with HD Radiator , and no HD Fan listed.
The 3.90 4spd samples list both.

In other news , a friend from BaT sent me a couple pages from a 2017 book called
Musclecars in Detail - #8 - 1964 GTO .

An article by John V. going into some detail about the 3.90 M21 cars .
At that point in time , John only knew of one documented car .
Maybe he can share any further details about it with us.
Evidently the car was no more - but they had the M21 tranny with VIN stamped on top and the original window sticker.

I know the car that I looked at in Daytona/Port Orange FL in 95 or 96 was a 76X8 car.
Up to that point all the 64 TriPower cars I had ever seen in person were 76XW.
Had bought/sold two 76XW engines up to that point also.
I knew X8 and X9 codes were a thing - from literature , but had never seen one in person.
The X8 stuck with me.
I have never seen or had any X9 pieces or cars at all.
Really don't think I am confused about it.

Car was basically an untouched survivor - and complete. Worn out original paint with minimal rot behind all 4 wheels. Stored indoors for almost 2 decades. Not started in over 10 years.
Owner knew exactly what he had and confirmed it was M21 3.90
He was just behind the times on value.

I was down there on a 2 week visit.
My uncle knew all about my Pontiac disease and told me it was for sale in the morning paper.
I wasn't into 64s for personal pleasure , but never passed up good 64 parts or cars to resell.
Could have doubled my money on that car easy , maybe close to triple.
But was going to let a good friend get it.... For $3000
He was seriously looking for a 64 TriPower GTO of his own.
I was the first one to the car.

He got on the owners nerves over a 64 in-dash Tach he thought he had but couldn't find yet.
My friend in NC didn't want to put up a penny until he found that Tach.
Owner got fed up with him and said no longer for sale , dont call anymore.

I went back to the guys house , and he told me basically the same thing.
That was that.
More to the story , in the middle , but that's how it landed.
He FKkD Up

About 3 weeks later at Charlotte Auto Fair swap meet , we were heading up an aisle where some guys from Georgia that specialized in Oldsmobile parts new and used always set up.
Sometimes some Pontiac stuff too.
Always stopped and shopped and talked.

Youngest guy , about same age as me , spots me and hollers for me to come over.
Asks why I didn't buy that Blue 64 in Daytona
?? How do you know about that ??
He had bought it - he was next in line.
My friend about croaked on the spot.

I told him how it went down , and why.
He laughed through the whole story.
Then said - oh yeh , I got the Tach with it too.
My friend walked off to have some moments in silence.
He Fkkd Up on that deal.

And now it looks like it was a gold plated needle in a haystack.

Car was in a garage only about a mile, or less, from my uncle's house.
Nocturne Blue with pretty decent Black interior.

Here's a thread that John V had about this tranny I think. ( the one you referred to I think)


1964 Build Sheet Codes


:)

Here's a sheet that I 'corrected'. Check if it is good?

Looks good to me John.

Now need to update their table that lists all the option codes.
Will have to go back over it , HD Fan is one that I know is missing.
I think there are more also , HD Frame , HD Crossmember ...

Actually think this is correct, I was in a hurry and rewrote the close again on the '9' tranny.
:(


See if this is better.

Wow you sure did.
Went right past me too.

Here are the 6 and 8 tooth gears it's talking about on the output shaft of the trannys.

John V. told me the secondary speedo gears on Fremont docs are installed on the production line.
Not at the manufacturer . fwiw

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/s...sLMDA20Jvc9QkT

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/s...QamwaZbMXnxbwA