How to Approach Removing a Sharp Crease?
 

I decided to finally try and fix this damage on the PS quarter.

There are some sharp creases that I know won't be easy to just ding out.

I bought a cheapo stud welder from Harbor Freight that I hope will help.

Here's the mess:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773525183
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773525197
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773525307

Luckily, it is very accessible from inside the trunk.

There are 2 creases that made me think a stud welder and some tension would help.

Tell me how you would go at this... where would you start and how would you approach it?

My thought was to start at "1" by pulling toward the rear where I have marked "x" while tapping the ridge of the crease. Hopefully there's enough room for the stud welder to work...

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773525792

It needs to be clamped onto and pulled back before hammering on it. Otherwise you are going to stretch everything and make it much harder to repair after you eventually have it pulled anyway.

OK, thanks.

I don't have equipment or skills to clamp and pull... that would be something I'd have to pay a shop to do. Maybe a PDR tech could do it?

I was hoping I could get away with a slide hammer to pull on welded studs while I hammered the creases down but that may be wishful thinking.

Someone already stretched the panel above the bumper when they hammered those big dings from inside near my #2 crease. I have had some success with a shrinking disc on dings but never dealt with this much damage.

It's not clear to me the entire panel was displaced front to rear. I will run a straightedge along the trunk lid edge and compare this damaged side to the other. The top face, rear face, and radiused edge circled here all appear undamaged.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773542462

Same along the mid body line and lower panel sections... no sign of compression damage (reflections are not waves):

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773544197

But this buckle on the upper panel is the unknown. I am hoping if I pull out where the "x"s are, it might relieve the compression up there??? It is clearly pushed in here.

If not, then that may be where pulling it away from the buckle would help. Grabbing it to accomplish this might be a challenge... maybe at the weld but it would have to act through all the bends:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773544447

Here's the other side for reference:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773545604

Mike

At the corner you have the X, I would be mig welding a plate with a hole on the edge of the panel. Use comealongs or chain falls hooked in the hole to put some constant tension and hammer and dolley the crease and dents. Think of pulling a bed sheet smooth. Try to pull at the same angle as the impact

Thanks. I would have to get creative to make this happen but understand the concept.

I think the impact was mostly sideways into the panel. The tearing makes me think it was the bumper that pushed into it.

I'm guessing no matter which way you "fix it" it won't be any worse than it is. Staring at your dent for about 15 minutes trying to decide how I'd do it got me thinking about a guy I worked with many years ago. Step 1 for him was always the same. Start doing something then make adjustments as you go until finished. I witness him doing this many times when he had no previous experience with what he was doing. I learned a lot from that guy. Dude had no fear.

Do you mig or tig weld?

A manager once made our group take a class to try and get everyone working together with less frustration. The premise was there were people who analyze, then do something, then analyze again. Then there are those who dive in and do something, analyze a little, then do more.

Conclusion was Mike was a Think-Do-Think person in a Do-Think-Do group.

I am capable of making this worse but will definitely try something. I have yet to do anything one time on the car so not afraid to make mistakes. It's the challenge of doing new stuff that keeps me hacking at it.

Current thought is still to work on the #1 crease first. To me, that one is so rigid it will constrain everything else. In general, I will try to get that original edge looking more like it should before dealing with the "bigger" distortions.

I have a 120V Eastwood MIG but learned it can easily create distortion, especially on large panels. If I attach a plate or ring to pull, I'll have to think about "where" I attach it but it will be close to an edge and probably not on a visible panel. Honestly, I'd rather glue something if that's possible.... The bigger challenge is what to pull "against" but I'll figure that out if/when I get there.

Mike

I like your plan. I always go in with a plan, usually an over thought one. That crease is a bad one, but maybe with the stud gun, a hammer, and trial an error you'll get it straight. Good luck.

If you're going to apply heat, placing cool damp rags surrounding the area can help reduce the panel heat somewhat.

Made some progress... mostly good, learned some stuff.

The Harbor Freight stud welder worked great - better than I expected so I went for it. It pulled a little out before it pulled out a chunk so I attached a second and continued with the slide hammer:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626105

Comparing the DS to the damaged side, there was a well-defined fold line that I decided to focus on. The distortion is obvious on the damaged side:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626132

So I welded a 3rd stud and alternated with a slide hammer and a pick hammer inside the trunk to start restoring the fold:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626139

Got enough movement before the 3 studs pulled out that I started to hammer directly on the fold. I held a right-angled dolly on the fold as I flattened and kept using the pick hammer:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626532

This is where I stopped. The folds are defined better and the crease is pretty flat:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626753

This is enough to feel OK about moving to the real challenge of the "#2" crease:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773626761

This is good advice here. If you don't get it pulled first you'll be chasing that oil can forever.
When PMD mounted the bumper to the rear body panel instead of the frame it made the 1/4 the crumple zone in an off center hit.

I need to embrace all this and step up.

Here's what I'm thinking today, please comment freely:

The compression along the quarter panel appears isolated to the top half. The body line has no obvious deformation, nor does the panel below the body line, nor does the rear face. All this is good IMO. Above the body line there is a creased indentation that definitely oil-cans now... illustrating the need to apply tension and relieve the compression where it's oil-canning.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773709420

The challenge for me is how to do this...

One option is to pull from behind. The tear below the rear face makes it weak there and I don't want to risk destroying that face and radius into the quarter by trying to attach something to it and pulling. That's a strong visual element for me and it's not messed up...

So one option is to clamp onto the flange and pull with a come-along winch. It might work.

Another option is to pull at the upper bumper mount nut but I don't think the structure would transmit much force into the upper quarter panel.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773710203

This looks like a reasonable tool to grip the flange and it's cheap on Amazon. I can also buy a come-along for not much at Harbor Freight and tie the other end to the hitch on my pickup ???

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773710370

The idea I like the most is to use a hydraulic ram or leveraged pole inside the trunk and push directly on the rear face in the corner. It is easy to access and I could probably find something fairly strong and rigid to push against in the trunk.

The downside is I don't have a porta-power or other hydraulic ram. I might be able to rig up something with a bottle or scissor jack.. maybe even some hinged 2x4s or some wooden wedges ?? I will call AutoZone tomorrow and see if they have something in their loan-a-tool stuff.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773710259

Hmmmm

Mike

I expected this to be a challenge and so far, no disappointment.

I started on the upper panel (crease 2) by looking for obvious deformation along the "boundaries" or "anchors" (rigid folds that constrain the panel). The upper and rear edges and the body line had nothing obvious. But the edge of the bumper cut-out was clearly pushed inward a lot.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773788438

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773788675

I decided to find out if pushing that edge out would be a magic answer. I struck out on finding a rental porta-power ram so I improvised. I used a couple 2x2s to get a lot of leverage outward. This worked pretty well, pushing to deflect the edge and hammering above it. The vertical post was about 4 ft long - more than enough to deflect the panel.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773788861

I didn't get the edge located great, nor did I get the creases flattened but it's a start. The buckle that oil cans (circled) was unfortunately still oil canning so I ran the shrinking disc around to see if that would help.

No magic.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1773789270

I concluded I will need to try pulling to the rear so bit the bullet and ordered a clamp and come-along.

Can only get better if I don't over-pull it.

He said.

A lot of good information here. The way I always fixed them is to imagine how the damage happened and then reverse the impact. The key to fixing that panel is to tie the car down and pull on the quarter and bumper mount while taking a body hammer and lightly bumping the quarter panel all over the panel to release the tension. Put the panel under the most tension you can without damaging it and go all over the panel with a wide head body hammer and then go to the bent places and bump it out. Repeat until you see the panel relax.

I finally got back to this and made what I think is progress.

I followed your advice and put some tension on the quarter using a cheap clamp and a come-a-long hooked to the hitch receiver on my truck. Put a good load on it which made me nervous about the heavy clamp letting go and taking out my truck but didn't happen!

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777498630

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777498487

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777498504

First I worked to push the sharp line along the bottom edge pushed out. I pushed hard from the inside along the pink line and slapped the high areas and folds near the orange marks:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777498966

Then I noticed this stiffening rib in the trunk was slightly buckled so I straightened it out:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777499235

Then the good part - This indentation would oil can.. which was my biggest motivator for pulling on the quarter:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777499317

The concave region right above the body line was pushed out some. After I straightened the rigid fold, I knocked this concave region (orange) in while pushing out along the convex upper section (red) and it held!

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777500061

With much amazement, I found the buckled section that oil-canned had straightened out and was actually holding some shape!!

This is where I ended today. I plan to weld the tear next, then strip and start looking more objectively at the shape... but so far, it's better than where it started.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777500183

May not be the best/popular way but I have successfully on more than one occasion taken a zip wheel and made a slice on the high stretched area then tapped it down and rewelded. It was better than fighting the oil can effect. Taking out 1/16" out of the middle made a huge difference and calmed a lot of headache without having to try and shrink the metal.

No welding yet.
 

I would not weld that seam until you have re-shrunk the stretched metal from that accident.
You need to get a porta power set from Harbor freight and push from the inside of the trunk caddy corner to the other trunk floor deck lid brace and get that rear portion pushed out more. That is causing most of your problems. I can see it in the shadow of your body line on the Eyebrow detail for the QP. Still pushed in about an inch or so.

That needs to be addressed first.

Then you need to strip the paint in the damaged area and heat, shrink the stretched area using a propane torch or acetylene torch and cool with wet rags. Then use the hammer and dolly to work that area back into shape. Rear corner first. You may still need to porta power the inside while you heat it up and shrink to hold the shape.
Do little dimed sized heated areas along the worst part of the rear crease. You will instantly see the metal tighten back up and the whiskey can affect
disappear.
Just my 2 cents

Thank you! This is the kind of help I need. I will hold off welding until I finish doing what I'm able with the contours.

I have been working under that same goal of restoring the rigid lip at the bumper cut-out as a first step. Without a port-a-power, I started with a wooden lever as I shared early in the thread. It has more than enough force to deform the lip and QP outward.

I will go back and measure, comparing with the other side. I know it was still in too far after my first session but thought I was close yesterday. I will go back and work harder at getting the lip where it belongs before moving on. Thank you for the observation.

Good description, thank you.

I don't have a torch but have a shrinking disc. I could also use the stud welder I bought. It will heat locally in a controlled way. I remember seeing others describe using a graphite tip on their MIG welder for shrinking but mine is too cheap to allow that. I think the stud welder is a good alternative to try.

I did remove a good amount of compression/buckling from the upper QP yesterday. I think this was more from pushing the lip outward and to the rear as you are guiding me and hopefully, I won't need a lot of shrinking..... TBD

Mike

Spent a little time on it again today. Straight edge comparison between good and bad sides told me I'm getting the lower edge at the bumper cut-out close to where it belongs. Definitely not off by an inch, still too bumpy to put a number on it.

I hit a high ridge near the original vertical crease with the shrinking disc and am starting to try and smooth the damaged area out. So far, the rigidity in the upper panel is holding... the oil-can has not returned. Yay!

Here's where I ended today... gnarly but I'm optimistic:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777749226

The only way to get both sides dimensionally equal is to first pull the lower edge out then straighten. You will not get the two sides equal by straightening with a hammer dolly. All you are doing is moving the metal within the set dimension flat, but not increasing the dimension. The only to do that is to pull. Back in the 70s when a car came in with the type of damage you had, the first step was to pull until both sides measured equal, then straighten.

Thanks for the help.

Can you clarify "lower edge"?

I understand your point and will think about "how" and "what" to measure. This by itself is a challenge for me. I am counting on the rigidity of the body line and upper bend along the top edge of the QP to anchor the contours.

I'm going to work on straightening the damaged area next. If, as you say, there is still obvious buckling, compression, or distortion in the panel forward of the damage, I'll keep trying.

Pulling as I did helped and I can do more of that. I can also get a cheap porta-pull for about $100 if I think that will help. Beyond that, I'll probably just continue living with my limitations!

Mike

Spent another couple hours on it today. I don't think I will have to do any more pulling as the contours are getting close.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777931188

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777931232

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777931232

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777931232

Next will be to flatten this ridge, then I will weld the tear inside the bumper cut-out.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1777931584

Mike

Nicely done!

I welded the tear and holes today, went good enough.

Need your input on the tricky stuff now... I appreciate all the help so far from people with experience.

Here's about as good as I'm capable on the welding. Yes, that's another tear under the lip on the back edge but I'm not worried about that as it won't mess up the body.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1778641434

After welding, I used a long steel rule as a straightedge. Keeping it fixed horizontally on the driver side as a reference, I found the panel was nearly straight (very low curvature) until it hit the fender cut-out or radius into the deck lid. It's a compound curve in a vertical section but not much horizontally.

On the damaged side, I then mapped out deviations from these near-straight horizontal paths. Circles are high, dots are low. The high around "4" is not more than 1/16" crowned over a length of about 4". Same with the low over the big dot area ("3"). A lot of what you see at "3" is just texture differences from grinding. Basically, the remaining deformation is like a big shallow wave from 2 to 3 to 4.

The highs at "1" and "2" are much more "local", more like ridges than the overall panel curve issues at 3 and 4.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1778641328

My thought is I need to reduce the curvature at 4 just a little without messing it up. I can fill some at 3 without injuring my pride but I know the low area may still be pushing the high region at 4 out a little. I'm reluctant to hit area 4 with a shrinking disc. I know I could mis-read the whole thing and make it worse if I over-shrank and there is no localized deformation.. just seems bowed out from a little compression still.

If I have to shrink the low area at 3 I'm not sure how, as I don't have a torch, just a shrinking disc... maybe I can do it from inside the trunk...

My plan for now is to try shrinking the high spots near 1 and 2 with the disc before touching anything with a hammer/slapper/dolly again... maybe a little more work right around the lip, then see if this tightens up 3 and 4.

Advice is welcomed.

Mike

If it were me at this point I would shoot a guide coat so the areas out of shape would be better defined.

Your doing great work! Better than virtually every collision shop today.

Hence why I like using a bumping file
even a light pass will show the defects

Thank you two.

I bought long rigid sanding boards for the valance last year. I like the scotchbrite discs for cleaning up and the texture change from a quick pass with 100 grit on a long board makes defects obvious. I also have some dyekem spray but the dust is nasty so I don't use it as much. It does make everything jump out though...

I'm still working on the big stuff. My challenge isn't finding the issues, it's guessing what to do about it!

I'm still trying to get the "lip" at the bumper cutout where it belongs (pink dashes). It is very rigid and "anchors" everything. The straightedge told me I had pushed the lip about 1/16" too far "out of plane" where circled in pink. So yesterday I knocked it back in while pushing on the low spot below "3" with a flat dolly from the inside.

I think this helped some but I have to watch how the big waves change and will use the sanding boards as you suggest.

I also ran the shrinking disc over the "local" bumps at "1" and "2". I think this did tighten up the panel and pull the crown at "4" back in but not quite back to "flat" yet.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1778769458

I'm going to try and improve the body line where it meets the lip before I go after the waves again.... and probably fill the 2 holes I left when I welded the tear :o

Mike

Another session today with more progress. I have more dolly work to level out some local ripples but the lip seems to be where it needs to go and the big waves are getting harder to find.

The end of the body line proved difficult to move so I decided to add some weld as a filler. Good idea, but execution was my typical mediocre and needs more work.

The end is near.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1778799454

Mike

Looks familiar to me! Not sure I like being in a club, but whatever.

Thanks to post toastie for sharing the video here:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=885521

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1779326501

After some time off, I just finished the first pass with epoxy primer and filler.

I have a couple places to tap/slap down, but overall, I'm happy with this. The location of the bumper cutout edge seems good enough. The edge is mostly metal. High spots I will hit are in orange, green needs filler:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1780341414

I will have to add more weld to bring this lower edge out and it will also need filler, but overall contour seems OK to me so far. Body line is good:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1780341499

This inside concave area will need filler but I'm fine with that. The metal along the cutout edge makes me happy:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1780341703

Mike

I whacked it some more, did another pass of filler, and blocked. Knowing I'm not good at letting the block do its job, I decided to coat the whole thing with a "glaze" and block it again. This worked well and I declared it close enough.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781651009

After smoothing out the inner lip of the bumper cutout, I primed it today. This is probably where I will leave it. Way better than where I started, learned some stuff, and I'm happy enough.

Thanks again for the good advice!

Before:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781651471

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781651450

After:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781651176

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781651158

Mike

Do you see the "before and after" photos in the previous post? They show up on my PC but not on my phone. This is a weird one...

no,and no

Tnx for letting me know. Try again...

BEFORE:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781707720

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781707741

AFTER:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781707780

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1781707797

Great results!

Nice work Shiny

work
 

Very nice. Turned out about the best it could be. Nice save of an original QP.