[Blowd]

Background: I've decided to put a blower on the convertible which has pwr steering and A/C. Have a BDS setup with BDS low profile manifold which I really like. I live in Texas so I also like a cool breeze in my face when I'm cruising. This requires running the A/C when the top's down.

The Problem: Snaking the upper radiator hose around the alternator. I think I've tried about every combination of factory brackets and alternator locations on my mockup motor. I really don't want to do anything too bizarre bracket wise, I also don't want the alternator sticking through the hood.


The Thought: Looking at my S10 parts chaser, I'm thinking if I mount a remote resevoir style power steering pump, I can easily move the alternator over enough to gain the clearance I need. What I 've got to do now is find a pump that wil accpt a v groove pulley (non metric) and possibly even bolt up to the original brackets.

Just wondering if anyone has seen this done so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. (I don't get out much you know ). So don't feel like your going to embarass me pointing out that someone sells this over the counter.

[Formula8]

You should be able to piece something together from here: http://www.detroitspeed.com/productpages/steering.htm

[Blowd]

Thanx for the lead F-8. After doing some research in this area, I've decided to go conservative initially. I'm going to just use my P-pump that I have and mount it in a mid 90's Astro Van housing with a remote reservoir. (I guess I should use one from a Safari since I'm puttin' it on Pontiac )
This will allow me to retain my factory brackets and pressure hose. It is also easy to tweak the pressure on the P-pumps if I need to add a hydroboost later. I think I can fab up a relatively clean alternator mounting just above where the filler neck used to reside.
Got the idea from the 4x4 guys. Seems the stock P-pump is better mule than some of the type II based systems for my application. It will be quieter if I mount it "wet" as well.
Will probably be a few before I can scrounge up parts to mock it up, but if anyone is interested I can post up results in week or two.

[Bnick166]

Interesting....keep us posted on your progress.

[HWYSTR455]

I'd love to be able to use one of those type II pumps (type in link) on my '69 pullley/bracket setup in place of the original. Anyone ever adapt one as a direct replacement of the original?

[Blowd]

Mile, you might want to look at some of the stuff being done with modified P-pumps before you go to the effort of fabricating bracketry for a type II. Check out this Camaro with a Lee modified dry p-pump: http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/ Scroll down the page about 2/3. Interesting setup.
BTW I finally got around to checking those piston domes yesterday. Turns out they were all identical, just diff dimensions on the build sheet. Much ado about nothing I guess. Thanx again!

[Pontirag]

also consider using a deisle truck set up. Pump should bolt up to your brackets no problem but the fittings are metric. dont use heater hose bettween the reservoir and the pump as it will melt and sweat fluid. nasty mess.

[HWYSTR455]

Darn, I'm relieved over the domes! I would have found it odd that they would have been diff, but stranger things have happened! Glad your happy with them, by the way.

That pump info wasn't very clear to me, will have to go over that a few times to make sense. It that guy saying that you can directly swap one of those pumps for the original? That was be great, to say the least.

Much ado about nothing, got a little shakespeare in you eh!?!

[Blowd]

OK, I'm kind of learning about these pumps as I go along so bear with me. My understanding is that that the Saginaw P style pump is used in about a half billion applications. First attached photo shows it relieved of the "ham can" housing.
What Casanova is running on that Camaro is a unit modified by Lee to run "dry". That is divorced from the reservoir. This is to avoid having the hot pump sitting in your fluid reservoir. They plug the holes at the bottom and tap the top for an AN or pipe fitting. There may be some internal improvements done as well. Bottom line is your running the same style pump, just without the reservoir around it. Makes adding a cooler easier as well.
There are also some considerations for the reservoir design to reduce airation such as the shape of the "funnel" and the return line entry. As Pontirag pointed out, the inlet to the pump can collapse under suction. It is recommended to use a spring inside the hose if your not using a line rated for suction.
Back to the photo, you can also see the pressure valve and spring which is behind the inlet. These come in various applications and are a simple drop in swap. The pressure (hose) fitting itself is a male connector on early pumps and female after 67 (I think). They are interchangeable. I have not yet verified if the metric inlet fittings are interchangeable as well.
I've also included photos of my prototype for my Alternator mount. 1st pic has arrows pointing to original alternator mounting hole (68 style bracket) and the embossed area on the pwr steering bracket that will have to be cut down for full travel. 2nd photo is a differnt angle, the water neck is obscured by the straight edge in this photo. (I was using the valve cover bolts as a parallel reference). 3rd photo is looking down the water neck with the alternator mounted. Plan is to go under the alternator and over the pwr steering pump with some armored hose.
Note I still have the 11 bolt timing cover and water pump on these photos which makes it look a bit weird with the 68 brackets.
Should get my hands on the Astro Van pump set up by next weekend and I can verify clearance.

[HWYSTR455]

So you, and Casanova, are saying that you can't use the type II pump with the factory brackets because of the way the alt belt runs between the PS pump pulley & body? If restricted to the factory brackets, personally, I would just retain the factory pump to allow for easier field replacement if need be.

I'm using the same bracket setup you show in your pics by the way.

What I would like to do is:

a) use the factory brackets, a CS130 alt, and the type II pump

or

b) a serpentine setup using a cs130 with a type II pump.

either with or without a remote reservoir. Since the CS130 alt and type II pumps are smaller, I would think that it could be made more compact, even fitting both below the level of the valve cover rail of the head. That in my opinion would be optimal, and desirable. Or for that matter, swap the alt & pump locations, since the pump isn't as deep, and the alt pos post could hang past the block/head, roughly where the usual PS stud is (where it goes through the aluminum bracket). In that case, you could use a chevy clocking on the alt, and not have to reclock when replacing. Ok, so maybe I'm dreaming...

[Blowd]

I think what your talking about it feasible. In my case I'm just trying to get some clearance for an unusual water outlet location.
As far as the pulley location on a Type II (ot TC) pump, I just haven't been able to find dimensional info for pumps or pulleys. If you could find a v-groove pulley to fit the shaft with the correct off set (alot of ifs), you might be able to redrill/ space the factory brackets to work. I gave up on this.
In the second scenario, you would have a lot more freedom. For example the the type II P/S pump could be mounted via the backside flanges to the accessory bolt holes on the head via a flat plate and apropriate spacers. An attached reservoir would probably be desirable with the pump up high. I think hanging the alternator would be "relatively" easy as well, if there is enough real estate to clear the steering box.
I may have to revisit this after I get my quick and dirty solution going.
There is a fair amount of info and some good photos of the 2 types of pump in the middle of this article. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ng/index2.html

[HWYSTR455]

I at one time did a bit of research for using a type II pump (TC/KRC), and I have the demensional info for pulley offset from the pump housing mounting flange, front & rear. I also spoke with a bracket & pulley fab co that a lot of hot rod guys use, father/son team, and they said they could do it given the demensions of the front of the engine (Pontiac traditional), though I never followed through. Guess I'll pick that back up! I'm just confused that with the number of serpentine kits that have come out, the TC pump isn't used, except on the Chevys & Fords.

[TransAm525]

HWYSTR455,

I thought I'd chime in to save you some time with your future alternator conversion. I converted to a CS130 alternator on my 78 Trans Am using the East Coast Electric 120 amp super mini. Take the factory alternator bracket off, cut a 1/2" section out of the middle of the bracket (where the inner bend is), then weld it back together. You will also need to have a custom spacer made. I was able to find an E-bay auction for a custom aluminum spacer built to my specs. Once you have the bracket modified and the new spacer, all you need to do is change the wiring to accept the single wire configuration and you're done.

[HWYSTR455]

The CS130 is a direct replacement for a 10 or 12Si, what did you use? (The pic is of an East Coast CS130).

Anyway, the one place that was saying they could make the brackets given the dimensions is ConceptOnePulleys.com, and CVProducts.com said they could probably do it too.

Here's the initial dimensional drawing I did that I was going to send them, which are true to scale. (Obviously, not the posts here are to scale, and yes, rough, but functional.)

I may still follow through with this at some point, since it would be yet another serpentine setup for a reasonable cost.

[Bnick166]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I may still follow through with this at some point, since it would be yet another serpentine setup for a reasonable cost.

There are other reasonably priced serp. set-ups for us to use?

[Thomasmoto]

20 Years ago when I had my blown TA I used a smaller cased alternator and mounted it on the pass side kinda under the block with a self tensioning spring for the belt and kept my stock power steering as factory. I really wanted to just loop the p/s hose from in to out, but was advised against it due to a check valve that might cause it to lock-up. Then everybody else was doing it, but if "I" did it would have been a problem and at that time the 80 TA blower car was my only transportation and I wouldn't risk it. Just my .02, but it solved my drive set-up. It was a Hampton 6-71
David

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Bnick166

There are other reasonably priced serp. set-ups for us to use?

By the time I'd be done with it there should be! Heh-heh! I'm hoping the one that 'Dan' is building shows up soon, keep me from going through the trouble!

As for now, the only ones available that I know of are the Rodney Red & March setups. And as you know, the March isn't what I'd consider reasonably priced. I don't particularly care for the mounting locations on the Rodeny Red either. Let's cross our fingers and see if Butler markets the one custom setup they did, and keeps the price down!

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=547554

Looks like it uses a type II / TC PS pump....

[TransAm525]

The East Coast Super-Mini uses a smaller case, but is still classified as a CS130 (http://www.ecae.com/alt1.html). Compared to the alternator in the picture, mine doesn't have a plastic backing and has a plug receptacle which is closed shut with sealant (single wire conversion). Using the swing-arm style alternator bracket, as pictured above, probably wouldn't require any modifications to work, but the later alternator brackets will need a 1/2" section removed.

[HWYSTR455]

Ah, gotcha, yes, that's looks like a smaller case. Mine's the #2009...

[Blowd]

Hey David. Were you running the A/C compressor with that? On my mock up motor it looked like I would still have to raise the compressor belt a couple of inches to get the alternator in under there between the lower hose and frame rail. I know, I just want it all don't I?
BTW, My buddy ran a looped power steering box on his drag car for 15yrs before I finally gave him enough greif to make him change it. Go figure.
I may eventually end up going to a manual box myself, but for now I'm trying to put together a "super cruiser". I've always liked having a car I could cruise anywhere in, get stuck in traffic for hours, and still have an outrageous appearance with respectable performance.