[Dave M]

I'd love to see the dyno sheet on the 2 428's that you mentioned


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[bendutro]

My '67 400 is in the machine shop right now getting turned into a 433. I'm swapping the 670s out for SD Performance 260+ ported #48s. I intend on running the same Lunati 231/239 roller and will be using the Qjet and iron intake, at least for a good while. If I can approach or crack 500hp I'll be content. I intend on driving this car, not trailering or garage queening it.

I have a set of Doug's headers and an 11-bolt timing cover. Sounds like we're building similar engines but I don't wish to go any bigger in the cam department. I have a manual too and I want decent low end and cruising ability when I get an OD trans eventually.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by bendutro

My '67 400 is in the machine shop right now getting turned into a 433. I'm swapping the 670s out for SD Performance 260+ ported #48s. I intend on running the same Lunati 231/239 roller and will be using the Qjet and iron intake, at least for a good while. If I can approach or crack 500hp I'll be content. I intend on driving this car, not trailering or garage queening it.

I have a set of Doug's headers and an 11-bolt timing cover. Sounds like we're building similar engines but I don't wish to go any bigger in the cam department. I have a manual too and I want decent low end and cruising ability when I get an OD trans eventually.

I think those heads will make all the difference in the world. I'm certainly no expert but I think these roller cams will out strip mildly ported heads quickly. I am going with Dave's 6X-4 package, modified iron Q-Jet manifold and Stump Puller cam, RARE RA Manifolds, TH350 and 3.08:1 Posi. I do about 15,000 miles yearly in my Daily Driven '72 Luxury LeMans.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

I think those heads will make all the difference in the world. I'm certainly no expert but I think these roller cams will out strip mildly ported heads quickly. I am going with Dave's 6X-4 package, modified iron Q-Jet manifold and Stump Puller cam, RARE RA Manifolds, TH350 and 3.08:1 Posi. I do about 15,000 miles yearly in my Daily Driven '72 Luxury LeMans.

Karl, sounds like a killer street engine!

[HWYSTR455]

I guess I may be different than most here, but if I were doing a short(er) stroke engine, I would be looking at higher RPM power bands, and it would have to have aluminum heads due to flow requirements.

Because of the higher RPM, it would have to be a solid roller too. HYD rollers usually give up around 6k, some of the short travel ones maybe 6500-6700, so you would generally cam it for lower RPM ranges with a HR. Granted, I have heard of folks going higher in RPM with HRs, but feel if you're going to 'do it', might as well just use solid rollers.

Spray would be fun, but maybe not so practical. Traction is tough as it is, but you could always hit it in 2nd gear. I did a bunch of homework a few years ago regarding which suppliers of kits were better, and at that time, for an off the shelf system, chose NX stuff. Their' pickups, valves, sols, and plates seemed to be much better than most.

With spray, I think it would be more appropriate to use a standard ring pack, maybe even choose a piston with a lower top ring, and set it up to accept up to 300 shot. Not that you would use that much, but it gives a safety margin, and room to grow. And without a doubt, would use MLS type head gaskets. I'm on board with the single plane (T2) and a square bore carb too.

With a properly prepared short block, you can move your redline to like 7500-8200 and let it eat, shift at like 72-7600, and run some gear.

.

[darbikrash]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Once I saw the dyno results of the Lunati HR cams that Gtofreek did, I knew I had to run one. He posted dyno results of that high compression/large CFM 400 that made 490+HP with the 230/239/110. He also did the low compression/smaller CFM 428 that made 415 HP with the 219/229/112 .

I figure a moderate compression 428 with the 230/239, decent flow and headers should make 450+ on motor. It should also be able to use any gear in the range of 3.23 to 3.90, which fits the street/strip part of the deal. It seems like y'alls estimates are right in that range, so it seems like I'm heading in the right direction.

My 433 was based on a 421 block, 4" Scat crank with 4.155 Autotech pistons, right at 9.5:1. Iron heads were ported by SD Performance. Made just under 450 HP with a really nice torque curve. I used a Lunati solid lifter custom grind with 239/243 @ .05 and .545/.558 lift using 1.65 rockers as I did not want to deal with the hyd roller noise and issues as well as the high cost. The cam is nitrided with an EDM hole on the lifter face.

Very mild cam with good vacuum for the power disc brakes on my Catalina. You asked about the cam gear, I like to use Scott Simms' needle thrust bearing setup, he sells it complete with a Rollmaster double chain with full adjustability for degreeing the cam in.

Paul Carter did the machine work.

DSC_0158_zpseuowy2nq by John Cogger, on Flickr

dyno_data_zpsnvm5frsm by John Cogger, on Flickr

Graph_zpsax7qwwk9 (1) by John Cogger, on Flickr

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Dave M

I'd love to see the dyno sheet on the 2 428's that you mentioned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The threads are here on this board.

Here is the 413 build.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=785341

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=795059

Here is the 422 build.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=801783

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Time for everyone's favorite game: 433 pump gas engine combo thoughts?

'67 400 2-bolt block at 4.156" bore, zero decked @ 10.215", line honed, long dowel pins and main studs, screw-in front plugs, screw-in rear plug with dist lube hole added.
Scat 4" stroke crank, BBC journals. 2.8 thou on mains and 2.5 thou on rods.
6.8" rods, forged dished pistons with LS ring pack 9.6: compression
Total Seal conventional (non-gapless) AP profiling stainless ring set.
670 heads, street port job 235/185 CFM@.550, 1.8 IH with 160 seat, 360 nose
Lunati HR cam 231/239/110
Comp 857 HR lifters
crower enduro rockers
RPM intake, Qjet, electric return style system with separate deadheads for carb and nitrous.
up to 200 shot sniper nitrous plate
Milodon 7qt pan/windage tray/pickup
Melling 10540 60PSI pump (butler pro pump better??)
double-roller chain with billet gears (what make??)
quality SFI balancer (suggestions??)
11 bolt pump
MSD RTR dizzy and Mallory 685 box doing the zap-zap
Hooker SCs and 3" exhaust.

Going into a 3700 lb lemans with 10"conti converter, TH350 and 3.90s. PDB/PS/no AC.

What will it make and how can I improve?

That combo should make an easy 475 HP, and 540 Ft. Lbs.. Even with the lower head flow. The 670's are great heads, and will make power. The cam is big enough for your use. Heck the 422 I built made 415 HP, and 500 ft. lbs., with the smaller Voodoo HR[219/227]. That was with 6X-8 heads at 8.8:1 compression, and flowing around 230/185. It had a tri-power on it too. With this smaller cam, it peaked power at 5300 too! I would install the 231/239 at a 106° ICL. The 413 I did with this cam peaked at 5400. I had it degreed at 103° ICL.

[chiphead]

I like that estimate.

Do you have a picture of the lifter bore oiling mod? Should I do it to this block?

[bendutro]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I guess I may be different than most here, but if I were doing a short(er) stroke engine, I would be looking at higher RPM power bands, and it would have to have aluminum heads due to flow requirements.

Because of the higher RPM, it would have to be a solid roller too. HYD rollers usually give up around 6k, some of the short travel ones maybe 6500-6700, so you would generally cam it for lower RPM ranges with a HR. Granted, I have heard of folks going higher in RPM with HRs, but feel if you're going to 'do it', might as well just use solid rollers.

Spray would be fun, but maybe not so practical. Traction is tough as it is, but you could always hit it in 2nd gear. I did a bunch of homework a few years ago regarding which suppliers of kits were better, and at that time, for an off the shelf system, chose NX stuff. Their' pickups, valves, sols, and plates seemed to be much better than most.

With spray, I think it would be more appropriate to use a standard ring pack, maybe even choose a piston with a lower top ring, and set it up to accept up to 300 shot. Not that you would use that much, but it gives a safety margin, and room to grow. And without a doubt, would use MLS type head gaskets. I'm on board with the single plane (T2) and a square bore carb too.

With a properly prepared short block, you can move your redline to like 7500-8200 and let it eat, shift at like 72-7600, and run some gear.

.

I have no doubt a build like that would scream. I shudder to think of the spring pressures required to keep a valvetrain stable between 7000-8000rpm but it sounds entertaining. My goal is a stock-ish type build. I love the aluminum heads but I saved a grand using the #48s. I'll spend $ where I have to, to make this reliable first and foremost. I know the HR lifters will not spin past 6000-6200, but given the intake port size, I'm not going to gain anything buzzing it higher anyway. I could have just gone to the 4.25" stroke, but I want to keep the character of the engine tipped the the bore-oversquare side. I love torque as much as anyone, but engine building is an exercise in compromise and I'm choosing to make mine on a mid stroke, hoping it will be slightly more efficient than a 462 but still capable of mid-low 11s. If I get bored with 500/500+ hp and torque, I'll probably slap an aluminum top end on it and go for broke as you say. For now, I'll burn enough fuel having fun with this.

[Old Man Taylor]

You probably will not run 11's naturally aspirated, but it should be easy (with traction) with a small shot of nitrous. I actually got mine into the 10's.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I like that estimate.

Do you have a picture of the lifter bore oiling mod? Should I do it to this block?

Here you go. Just use a 1/4 ball burr on a die grinder, and carefully start about 1/4" below the oil hole, and grind straight up to the oil hole. If you use air die grinder, wrap a rag under the throttle lever so you have control of the throttle. Take it easy, and you should be OK.

[tom s]

Do you guys realize what it takes to MAKE HP at 7500?I dont mean just take a engine there but make power there.It takes serious $$$$s to get it there in the topend alone.Tom

[Skip Fix]

Tom maybe a 302 Z28 motor Even my RAIV 400 with just some mild porting and a big solid did not want to go that high.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Tom maybe a 302 Z28 motor .

Yup, mine loves it up there

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by tom s

Do you guys realize what it takes to MAKE HP at 7500?I dont mean just take a engine there but make power there.It takes serious $$$$s to get it there in the topend alone.Tom

My little over cammed brodix head 11:1 350 sbc I had in my nova would buzz right there and past.....and I built it when I was 19 in a bedroom of a house

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by tom s

Do you guys realize what it takes to MAKE HP at 7500?I dont mean just take a engine there but make power there.It takes serious $$$$s to get it there in the topend alone.Tom

You shouldn't have posted this in the street section.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by tom s

Do you guys realize what it takes to MAKE HP at 7500?I dont mean just take a engine there but make power there.It takes serious $$$$s to get it there in the topend alone.Tom

I do

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Nicks67GTO

My little over cammed brodix head 11:1 350 sbc I had in my nova would buzz right there and past.....and I built it when I was 19 in a bedroom of a house

There is a difference between making power there and just reving it up there.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I do

I thought you started making power at 8k, did you advance your RP cam?