[Mickey_London]

Hi Guys
Just wanted to know if anyone is using one of these radiators

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F273651894592

Thanks
Mick

[694.1]

No mention of Country of origin. First thing I look for.

[Mickey_London]

Cheers
Did a search on here and a few are running with them, in different models.
Seem to be good
Thanks
Mick

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by 694.1

No mention of Country of origin. First thing I look for.

Really? Perhaps it's a generational thing, but the first thing you should look for is the reviews and standards of craftsmanship, not the country of origin.

It isn't 1965 anymore, and some of the very best products available come from overseas, including China, Japan, etc. And unfortunately, many products which are made in the U.S. are not of particularly high quality. This is what a 21st century global economy looks like.

I use a Cold Case radiator in my GTO, but I've been building and modifying cars for long enough to know that the country of origin has virtually no influence on the quality of a product these days. Sometimes the only way a part can be manufactured to a high standard and sold at a reasonable price is if it's made overseas where labor costs are low. That's a whole other discussion, but I digress.

[64speed]

Yeah I had a champion in my car till I traded it to a friend when motor blew up. It did the job

[Ccass]

3 row champion is the least efficient they make. their 4 row is better but still not as good as a large 2 row. 3 and 4 row aluminum rads are especially bad in stop and go driving. It may get the job done but for a little more you can do much better. If you want to reach out to me via email at chrisc@coldcaseradiators.com , I'll give you a special forum price on a Cold Case big 2 row unit with stamped polished tanks and a lifetime warranty.

[78w72]

yes, lots & lots of people use the champion radiators with great results, myself included. yes they are made in china, just like many products these days, but they are a quality part at a good price & have a lifetime warranty from USA distributors. they are fully TIG welded with polished tanks & have a higher fin count than stock OEM radiators.

there are those who will say they are cheap & of course there are better radiators for more money, but for the majority of street cars they work great & the 3 row will easily cool 400-500hp engines with no problems, providing the rest of the cooling system is up to par.

& they are not "especially bad in stop & go driving." i use the 3 row thats rated for up to 600+hp & it works excellent in my 500+hp alum head stroker engine. no issues at all in any driving conditions & 85-90* temps... stop & go, highway cruise, drag racing, etc. the 3 row works great & holds the temp perfectly at the 180* t-stat rating & the 4 row would work even better.

i'm not knocking other brands, but the champion brand is a great budget radiator & if by chance there is a problem or defect, they cover shipping both ways for free replacements.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by 78w72

yes, lots & lots of people use the champion radiators with great results, myself included. yes they are made in china, just like many products these days, but they are a quality part at a good price & have a lifetime warranty from USA distributors. they are fully TIG welded with polished tanks & have a higher fin count than stock OEM radiators.

there are those who will say they are cheap & of course there are better radiators for more money, but for the majority of street cars they work great & the 3 row will easily cool 400-500hp engines with no problems, providing the rest of the cooling system is up to par.

& they are not "especially bad in stop & go driving." i use the 3 row thats rated for up to 600+hp & it works excellent in my 500+hp alum head stroker engine. no issues at all in any driving conditions & 85-90* temps... stop & go, highway cruise, drag racing, etc. the 3 row works great & holds the temp perfectly at the 180* t-stat rating & the 4 row would work even better.

i'm not knocking other brands, but the champion brand is a great budget radiator & if by chance there is a problem or defect, they cover shipping both ways for free replacements.

I have no issue with pretty much everything you said except there's a number of Pontiac owners that simply will not be happy with anyone's 3 row radiator in a 500hp Pontiac motor. I being one of them. My stroker motor wouldn't even cool the car around town with a big 2 row which is an acknowledged more efficient unit than the 3 row.

I'm not trying to start a big debate over this. I just want owners to know that there are other better options for around the same price.

[brooknice]

I have a 4 row Frostbite and I over heated last summer 94 degrees new York city stop and go traffic. So in another month or 2 I will buy a cold case rad the biggest one I can find and I will get a separate transmission cooler with a fan. I will be posting the Frost bite for sale at that time.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by brooknice

I have a 4 row Frostbite and I over heated last summer 94 degrees new York city stop and go traffic. So in another month or 2 I will buy a cold case rad the biggest one I can find and I will get a separate transmission cooler with a fan. I will be posting the Frost bite for sale at that time.

If you could, it would be great if you tested the CC unit installed just like the 4 row frostbite so you are comparing apples to apples. Reporting the results to the community would be a big help. Then after the test you could add the trans cooler.

[brooknice]

I would love to do that but that means I would have to buy 2 cold case rads. I am not rich lol. Let me explain I think just my feelings is I drive my car a lot some days over 80 miles in a day. I feel that the rad just for the engine and the transmission cooler separate just for the transmission. I think that will solve my overheating problem.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Ccass

If you could, it would be great if you tested the CC unit installed just like the 4 row frostbite so you are comparing apples to apples. Reporting the results to the community would be a big help. Then after the test you could add the trans cooler.

I would be willing to try one / currently have a Champion / 461 Tripower over 500hp. in a 64 GTO manaul trans & has been cooling excellent in Pa. since 2012 .

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Ccass

I have no issue with pretty much everything you said except there's a number of Pontiac owners that simply will not be happy with anyone's 3 row radiator in a 500hp Pontiac motor. I being one of them. My stroker motor wouldn't even cool the car around town with a big 2 row which is an acknowledged more efficient unit than the 3 row.

I'm not trying to start a big debate over this. I just want owners to know that there are other better options for around the same price.

i fully agree, there are better options for more $$. champion is definitely a budget type product, but its a very good one for the price IMO. im sure the cold case are great radiators, i have never used one.

without knowing specifics of your car & why a big 2 row wouldn't cool the car, there are way too many variables on why that is. ive read countles times how one guys car overheats no matter what yet another guy with a similar combo of parts runs cool no matter what.

from my experience the 3 row champion cools my ~525hp 10.75:1 compression alum e-head engine almost too well, in all condions i mentioned, but if its below about 60-65* it takes a long time to reach temp & when moving it stays a little below temp. this engine/car would be fine on a factory brass radiator i bet. also have a friend with a 450hp iron head 462 & his 3 row champion acts the same, no signs of any overheating. each car is different.

no big debate, just giving my experience on what he was asking about.

[brooknice]

Originally Posted by Ccass

I have no issue with pretty much everything you said except there's a number of Pontiac owners that simply will not be happy with anyone's 3 row radiator in a 500hp Pontiac motor. I being one of them. My stroker motor wouldn't even cool the car around town with a big 2 row which is an acknowledged more efficient unit than the 3 row.

I'm not trying to start a big debate over this. I just want owners to know that there are other better options for around the same price.

What I will do is I will buy the automatic one and if it keep cool it cooler I will keep it. Just know I plan on using Evans water less coolant. That what I used before. I will post result once we get everything installed. Engine out right now with trying to deal with rocker arm issue. I will up date once I get every thing up and running.

[GTO JONES]

I just put a cold case in my 69 GTO with twin 12" fans, did have a 4 core In it that did fine but on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for. At slower speeds it would do fine. I'm hoping the cold case will keep it cool at highway speed. It looks great and fit perfect no complaints so far. Just my 2 cents worth.

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by GTO JONES

....on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for.

190-195F is the sweet spot. You're not doing your engine any favors by running cooler than that.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by GTO JONES

I just put a cold case in my 69 GTO with twin 12" fans, did have a 4 core In it that did fine but on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for. At slower speeds it would do fine. I'm hoping the cold case will keep it cool at highway speed. It looks great and fit perfect no complaints so far. Just my 2 cents worth.

Well the verdict is in on this dual fan Cold Case setup. Driven it enough to get a feel. Back and forth to Phoenix on the highway for 200 miles and around town quite a bit.

Works fine idling and in slow stop and go traffic. Fans kick on and off as they should and it will quickly pull this 571ci down to where ever we care to set the fans. Has no issue pulling it down to 170 degrees while idling and will do so in about 60 seconds.

However on the highway it will quickly heat up to 195 and creep from there with no sign of cooling down. Ambient temps outside were only in the 60's after sunset so it shouldn't run warm at all, the old copper radiator and stock shroud and clutch fan didn't run this warm on the highway with ambient temps this cool, so I knew there was an issue. Didn't seem to matter if we were cruising at 55 mph at 2600-ish rpm or 62-63 mph at 3,000 rpm. As it kept creeping closer to 200 we decided to pull off and check things.
For an experiment, I cranked up the rheostat to force the fans to constantly run and quickly got back on the highway. The entire remainder of the trip, about 50 miles of highway driving, it never got over 185 degrees.

So my hypothesis is that at speed, with this completely blocked off shroud that is also very boxy and close to the back side of the radiator simply isn't allowing airflow through the radiator at speed. It's hitting this aluminum shroud and bouncing off creating turbulence. Once both fans were forced on however, the engine immediately ran nearly 15 degrees cooler at speed, as the fans were helping to pull that stagnant air through the shroud. It appears the fans by themselves simply don't allow enough air to pass through the shroud at speed, and the design of the shroud, being completely squared off and only an inch away from the back of the radiator just isn't enough.

My solution is likely going to be some relief openings in the aluminum shroud with thin rubber attached in a way that they are pushed open at speed, and sucked shut when the fans kick on at low speeds. Pretty much exactly how the Be-Cool setups are that I've used in the past. This should alleviate any stagnant air trapped in the shroud without the need to constantly run the fans. Simple, cheap, and easy solution. Then drive it some more this summer and see how things go. Worse case scenario may end up with a different type of shroud and fan setup.

[78w72]

i understand YOU had a bad experience with a champion that was likely defective based on the pics you posted & comments from others... but if you re-read the thread i linked to, every member that commented about using a champion said it was great & nobody had the bad rows or green issue you mentioned or all the LS engines that a champion wont cool. point being, 1 (or even some) bad experience shouldnt condemn the entire brand or product. the pics you posted are gone due to photobucket but mine are still there to see, rows are fine & after 5 years of use no green stains or coolant smell of any kind...

as for customer service, i did have them replace the first one i bought due to a cosmetic issue, one tank had a small dent i didnt like... they sent a new one out first to replace it & included a pre paid label to send the old one back when i got around to swapping them. no questions asked & service was excellent. not trying to dimish your experience, just posting my experience.

[Formulajones]

They may very well have improved upon them, and customer service may be alright. But I haven't seen any compelling evidence to make me want another one.
My issue is that whether they would have replaced it or not doesn't matter. The fact that I wouldn't have known how long my daily driver would be parked while they go through their due process, shipping etc.. just left me to the decision that I didn't care if it blew. For $200 it was a cheap radiator, lesson learned. It could completely fail and I knew I could have a Griffin here from Summit the next day.

The biggest point really is the same thing Ccass is saying. There are better choices on the market for not that much more money. That's why I have no interest in Champions anymore. Even the Cold Case right off the bat had better construction, more fin count, better looking welds, and nice stock appearing tanks. I was impressed out of the box when compared to a Champion. And it's $589 from Butler with dual electric fan and shroud setup, a controller and complete wire harness. Can't complain. The exact same thing from Champion is $650 at the cheapest place I found, and they want to sell you a 3 row which isn't as efficient.

I'd recommend for those shopping to look around. I've had them both and can say the Cold Case appearance wise is a better piece. The real test will be in a few months when we get into our summer temps. If this cold case can keep a 724hp 571 ci engine cool that says everything to me when a champion struggled with a stock LS.

[78w72]

understood. but just an FYI: there is no down time, they send the replacement out first with a prepaid label to return the old one once they are swapped, all for free.

i agree with you & Ccass that there are better radiators for more money, not doubting that at all. but, you need to realize that many people out there are on a pretty tight budget & before the cold case radiators existed the only other options were brands that cost 2-3 times as much. champions with a no questions asked lifetime warranty for $200-$250 shipped are a great deal no matter how you look at it.

& they do not struggle to cool a stock LS engine as you keep saying, unless of course you have a defective one with crushed rows that will greatly dimish its cooling capacity. the 3 row champion will cool most 500hp cars, if the rest of the cooling system is in good working order, myself & many others here & elsewhere are proof of that.

bottom line is the champion is a great budget radiator, if you can afford a better one by all means do that. the cold case are a better price point radiator but from what i see currently they are still at least $100 more than the 3 row champion. i will leave it at that.