Pontiac - Street No question too basic here!

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:01 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default 505 engine build for street.

Getting close to wrapping up a 505 street engine. It has a 4.35" bore by 4.25" stroke. Using a Kauffman block, and Kauffman D-port heads, ported by Dave @ SD Perf. Using an SD Ported factory H.O aluminum manifold. He brought me the SD old faithful cam. Here are some pics of the build so far. Sorry, my Photobucket account is temporarily full so I will have to post thumbnail pics.

Here is the block, and it getting cryo treated. I cryo treated the entire engine.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160516_004.jpg
Views:	379
Size:	33.8 KB
ID:	439703   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160516_003.jpg
Views:	350
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	439702   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160513_001.jpg
Views:	410
Size:	42.1 KB
ID:	439701  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #2  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:04 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Getting ready to align hone it, but I see these dents in the brand new main caps! Careless handling I would say. Someone also beat on the sides of the main caps with a solid hammer to get the caps off, and dented the sides all up also.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_019.jpg
Views:	293
Size:	19.5 KB
ID:	439707   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_017.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	30.4 KB
ID:	439705   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_016.jpg
Views:	344
Size:	30.1 KB
ID:	439704   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_020.jpg
Views:	307
Size:	39.6 KB
ID:	439706  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #3  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:06 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

So I used a file to file the dents off, and make them flat again.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_023.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	28.2 KB
ID:	439711   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_024.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	31.1 KB
ID:	439710   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_021.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	28.0 KB
ID:	439708   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_025.jpg
Views:	243
Size:	40.7 KB
ID:	439714   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_022.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	43.5 KB
ID:	439712  


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #4  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:08 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

More main cap pics.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_028.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	439717   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_030.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	31.5 KB
ID:	439719   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_029.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	25.7 KB
ID:	439718   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_026.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	26.8 KB
ID:	439715   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_027.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	34.1 KB
ID:	439716  


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #5  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:10 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

After getting them flat again, I re-blued the steel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_032.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	31.0 KB
ID:	439726   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_033.jpg
Views:	260
Size:	32.3 KB
ID:	439724   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160711_031.jpg
Views:	216
Size:	41.4 KB
ID:	439723  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #6  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:13 PM
Nicks67GTO Nicks67GTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Waterloo, Ia
Posts: 2,895
Default

Subscribed

__________________


-1967 GTO HO Restomod. PKMM 433ci, SilverSport T56 Magnum 6spd, Moser 9", SC&C and a bunch of other pro touring goodies

- Build Thread
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...615847&page=23
  #7  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:15 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Getting it align honed.

Got it honed to 3.1885", exactly in the middle of the spec range. All 5 housing bores measure right on this number, and round within .0001".
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160713_003.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	30.8 KB
ID:	439730   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160712_001.jpg
Views:	240
Size:	45.4 KB
ID:	439728  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #8  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:21 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Time to square deck it.
As you can see[if you look close] the deck was not perfectly flat, even for a new block. This side had a little bit of twist. The other side was not at 90° to the cam/crank centerline. New blocks are not made to be placed directly into service. They need to be machined for proper heights, and dimensions for the build being done. The people making blocks do not know what pistons are going to be used, or what height it needs to be, so new blocks are just roughly machined, and need to be finished out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_004.jpg
Views:	269
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	439737   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_002.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	22.7 KB
ID:	439735   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_003.jpg
Views:	257
Size:	26.7 KB
ID:	439736  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #9  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:25 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Block needs to be de-burred of the sharp edges. I hate sharp edges. I use a Scotch-Brite pad on a die grinder to de-burr the edges of holes.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_013.jpg
Views:	265
Size:	45.7 KB
ID:	439742   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_011.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	31.9 KB
ID:	439741   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_009.jpg
Views:	268
Size:	36.2 KB
ID:	439739   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_010.jpg
Views:	267
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	439740   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_008.jpg
Views:	226
Size:	28.1 KB
ID:	439738  


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #10  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:29 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Here I am boring the cylinders out. I had to bore them roughly .200" over for a 4.350" final bore. I left .011" to hone out for a superior final finish. You can see the difference in the size of the bore from where it started to where it ended.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_019.jpg
Views:	271
Size:	25.5 KB
ID:	439747   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_016.jpg
Views:	305
Size:	19.4 KB
ID:	439745   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_018.jpg
Views:	262
Size:	38.9 KB
ID:	439746   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_015.jpg
Views:	279
Size:	34.2 KB
ID:	439744   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160725_014.jpg
Views:	265
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	439743  


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #11  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:37 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Here I have installed our big bore torque plate to hone it with. Then I rough hone it down to about .004" to go, with a roughing stone with T-plate installed. This makes for a nice, round cylinder. Then I hone it down to around .001" to go, with a medium grit stone. Then I use a finer grit stone to finish it to size, and for Moly or steel rings. Both types of rings use the same grit stone. Chrome rings use a slightly rougher stone[the stone I use to get within .001" of final size.

The gauge reading show the size at the top of the bore, the middle, and the bottom of the bore, respectively before final hone. I let the block sit for a little bit for the cylinders to cool off, and shrink up a few tenths. Each individual line on this gauge represents .0001", or about 1/30'th the thickness of a human hair.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_007.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	439751   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_006.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	25.9 KB
ID:	439750   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_005.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	26.0 KB
ID:	439749   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_001.jpg
Views:	230
Size:	33.2 KB
ID:	439748  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #12  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:43 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Now I go to the finish stone and hone the block to my zero point, which is the final bore size of 4.350".

Here it is .0002" small at the top, .00005" big in the middle, and right on size at the bottom. I will leave it here for now, and let the cylinders completely cool down before I finish it to my zero point. They will shrink up a few tenths.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_004.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	22.4 KB
ID:	439754   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_003.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	439753   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_002.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	31.6 KB
ID:	439752  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #13  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:47 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

After completely cooling down, I finished it to size. Here it shows the size at the top, middle, and bottom again.

You can see the size doesn't even vary .00005"! Actually doesn't even vary from zero anything measurable with our gauges.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_014.jpg
Views:	195
Size:	25.7 KB
ID:	439756   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_015.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	23.7 KB
ID:	439757   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160727_013.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	25.9 KB
ID:	439755  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #14  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:52 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Time to balance it. Here is a pic of the balance card I filled out. You can see this new, un-balanced crank was off by 205.4 grams in the front, and 63.2 grams in the rear. The reason the rear is not as far off as the front is because the rear counterweight is not as wide as the front, in order for it to fit in the block without hitting. This is why Pontiacs are externally balanced in the rear, normally. I will neutral balance this crank.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_008.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	29.6 KB
ID:	439759   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_003.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	28.2 KB
ID:	439760  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #15  
Old 10-30-2016, 02:59 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

This bobweight was 2262 grams. This is why I could neutral balance it. The stock bobweights range from 2400-2500 grams. Here is pics of the crank in the balancer with the bobweights hooked up.

After the first drilling, I managed to nail it, and get the front within .1 gram of the rear. I always do the heaviest counterweight first, as it will change the rear, as you can see by the 3 gram change from the first spinning to the second.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_002.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	39.4 KB
ID:	439761   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_004.jpg
Views:	217
Size:	24.3 KB
ID:	439764   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_006.jpg
Views:	216
Size:	28.1 KB
ID:	439763   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_001.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	34.9 KB
ID:	439762  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #16  
Old 10-30-2016, 03:05 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

All said and done, I had to drill 3 holes in the front, and 1 in the rear. Went a tad too far in the rear, and had to remove a slight amount from the rod journal area, and a little from the corner of the counterweight, since it wanted weight removed in between the two, where there is nowhere to remove from, so I had to take a little from both sides.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_006.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	27.7 KB
ID:	439770   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_005.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	26.4 KB
ID:	439769   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_007.jpg
Views:	246
Size:	24.1 KB
ID:	439768   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_004.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	439767   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20160930_007.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	37.3 KB
ID:	439766  


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #17  
Old 10-30-2016, 03:07 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Ended up .4 grams in the front, and .2 grams in the rear. It will be a nice, smooth running engine.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_002.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	439772   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161003_001.jpg
Views:	184
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	439771  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #18  
Old 10-30-2016, 03:08 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Then I ground a groove in the lifter bore to lower the oil hole for hydraulic roller lifters. You can see the line I scribed 1/4" below the oil hole. This is where I grind down to.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161004_002.jpg
Views:	339
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	439774   Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20161004_001.jpg
Views:	317
Size:	47.2 KB
ID:	439773  

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #19  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:21 PM
68blackbird's Avatar
68blackbird 68blackbird is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Houston... its a wet heat...
Posts: 273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtofreek View Post
Then I ground a groove in the lifter bore to lower the oil hole for hydraulic roller lifters. You can see the line I scribed 1/4" below the oil hole. This is where I grind down to.
What is this going to do? Will it lower your oil pressure? Could the groove be made in the lifter body rather then the block?

Rich

__________________
68 Firebird 400, #16, xe274, street dominator, 850 DP, hooker headers, t400, 3500 stall, 3.73, 295/65 bfg drag radicals... best 13.27 @ 102.8, 1.90 60ft
  #20  
Old 01-08-2017, 02:00 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68blackbird View Post
What is this going to do? Will it lower your oil pressure? Could the groove be made in the lifter body rather then the block?

Rich
It won't change the oil pressure at all. The hole is already there. I just lowered it some so it reaches the oil band of the lifter when the lifter is on the base circle. It does not go down far enough for the lifter to expose it at full lift. This engine had 74 lbs. oil pressure when hot. The reason some hydraulic roller lifters are noisy, is because the oil band is too low, and it is not exposed to the oil hole during it's time on the base circle. This is the critical time the lifter needs to refill before it gets hit again by the lobe. After a short time the lifter is empty, and makes a lot of noise. The volume of oil that can squeeze around the lifter and make it's way to the oil band of the lifter, is not enough to refill the lifter if there is not excessive lifter bore to lifter clearance.

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017