[kennyg1669]

Yeah! What he SAID!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

As long as the A/F ratio stays within the required limits along with timing then the engine can't experience problems from progressive timers as it's seeing the same A/F all the way thru the rpm range.
Actually applying limited amounts of Nitrous at lower rpms with a progressive timer is less detrimetal then if the rpms are too low and vast quantites are injected.
Remember that N/A engines pull the amount of Air and fuel it requires as the rpms increase. But with Nitrous, you put what ya put the entire rpm range.

[Region Warrior]

I'm not to knowledgeable about progressive systems. Seems to me your hammering the engine 3 or 4 times instead of just once. Having studied water hydraulics for firefighting, i would be very concerned about switching system on & off several times during a run. Turn your garden hose on & off at full pressure a few times. You will notice a sudden jolt & movement in the hose. This is called a water hammer. It slams back to the source. This has been known to damage firetruck pumps & break hoses. I've witness'd hose breakage on fire scenes. Also notice spray pattern isnt that great when first opened. I know, Nitrous systems have better nozzels, but still i wonder. Another thing is how do you keep flow reversion down in the runners? And does this affect even flow to all cylinders?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

You have to look past the slow motion aspect. The solenoids are off and in a very short time over a very short period. Rapid sucession.
Also depends on the seat area and lift rate of the solenoid. A lot of issues developed back in the begining when they used a softer rubber type seals in the solenoid. They would swell and create sticking issues.
The flow is constantly increasing as it's applying both gas and Nitrous.
The valves in an engine open and close the same way. We are not talking using the timer to bring power in for a great distance or time period.
Slamming 400hp of Nitrous at 4500 rpms and trying to move over 3000 lbs is a lot harder on bottom end parts then bringing on 400hp over a longer period of time. When your applying any kind of power adder things are gonna exert pressure. But that's why a blower is easier on parts as it applies force/hp as the rpms require. Using a timer kinda applies the same theory with Nitrous. But we are talking limited tires/suspension and bigger quantities of Spray tomake the car hook. Everything depends on application and rules.
Hard on solenoids, maybe. Hard on engines if You follow the rules. I don't see how.
Definately easier on the drivetrain and tires.
And if you using it for even lesser amounts of Nitrous, well........
I don't think reversion would be an issues as we are talking over 4000 rpms and rapid engine valve timing and the same withthe solenoids. That's when ya get into camshaft profile and design.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I could be wrong, but running one for 4 years and no major issues when I got the right box that held up. And knowing others using them 'from experience' I just put it out there for anyone to sort out.

[Region Warrior]

Thanks DUDE. I forgot about the valves. It's so easy to get tunnel vision sometimes.

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PONCHOSHOP:
Thanks DUDE. I forgot about the valves. It's so easy to get tunnel vision sometimes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Mike you posted at 5.30 so I know bush is not clowding your vision yet,what state is the fuel in at the cylinoid? and what state is it in at the valve? and how dose all of that relate to your your hydrolics and liquid things from the fire dept?

[Region Warrior]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ray Cox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PONCHOSHOP:
Thanks DUDE. I forgot about the valves. It's so easy to get tunnel vision sometimes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Mike you posted at 5.30 so I know bush is not clowding your vision yet,what state is the fuel in at the cylinoid? and what state is it in at the valve? and how dose all of that relate to your your hydrolics and liquid things from the fire dept? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> 4;30 our time, still at work. Solenoid, liquid. Nozzle, gas. I guess my question is; are the solenoids getting hydrolic hammered? And, unless nitrous plate's nozzles sprays a thousend times better then a fire hose nozzle on the initial opening? How do you know when a fuel solenoid fails? Is there a safty switch to shut off the nitrous side? As for the cyl. hd. vlvs, they are opening/closing so fast, it probly doesnt matter. Im by far no expert on this subject, just tring to learn.

[Brian Baker]

HYDRAULIC! I swear, I think I'll f#%king puke if I see another person misspell this word (or any other common word) while engaging (or trying to engage) in a technical discussion.

I know ZIP about firehose nozzles, with one exception. They don't go from being 100% closed to 100% open as quickly as a nitrous/fuel solenoid does. I imagine part of this is because it takes even the strongest human longer to ramp that nozzle valve to 100% open than it does for an electric solenoid to ramp its valve to 100% open. For all intents and purposes, when comparing the solenoid to the fire hose nozzle, the solenoid is being opened to 100% instantaneously.

Is the solenoid getting "hammered" when "stuttering" it with a progressive timer? Depends on what you mean by the term "hammered". You see, the solenoid will see the same conditions (ie - pressure spikes on the inlet side) when closed over a longer period as it does when it is "stuttered" with the timer. It's just seeing more of them, over shorter periods of time when being "stuttered" with the timer, and like any mechanical device, this will result in an accelerated wear rate.

'Dude already covered it pretty well concerning atomization and the "tuneup" with his most recent posts, so there's no need to beat the horse any further in that respect.

[Ray Cox]

the problems created with a progressive are not the destruction of the cylinoid, they can be replaced!

so I guess not caring about exact spelling on every word means Im not qaulified to talk about nitrous? Im not sure what meets your qaulifications brian to talk about nitrous, but even when I ran a wet deck my tune ups didnt lift the heads enough to pop freeze plugs

I guess I need to stop talking about nitrous since Im not qaulified

Brian it is an extreme example but since your into the blowers and nastalga cars, what happens to a top fuel car when they try to pedal it at half track? and it was a more serious problem in years past but is now getting better with new nozle technology

[PONTIAC DUDE]

To show you how ignorant you are, Nitrous had no efect on the freeze plug deal. But if you can't write. I won't expect you to be able to read past posts I have posted as to the reason for the mishap. BTW. At least I fixed my issue and raced Lil' Jack. And ran 8.90's at Orlando with the same engine in October.
BTW: With a Schnitz Progressive timer on a harder compound street tire.
If I remeber correctly, you sat in the pits all Norwalk weekend shooting water everywhere but the in the sink.
I fixed my issue you didn't. But then again, that's where experience and knowledge comes into play.


I like you last statement. Now they might possibly work?
Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha.

Wish you luck & Hope you finally get it together this year.
Race Hard & Have Fun.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...964149272&rd=1

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ray Cox:
the problems created with a progressive are not the destruction of the cylinoid, they can be replaced!

so I guess not caring about exact spelling on every word means Im not qaulified to talk about nitrous? Im not sure what meets your qaulifications brian to talk about nitrous, but even when I ran a wet deck my tune ups didnt lift the heads enough to pop freeze plugs

I guess I need to stop talking about nitrous since Im not qaulified

Brian it is an extreme example but since your into the blowers and nastalga cars, what happens to a top fuel car when they try to pedal it at half track? and it was a more serious problem in years past but is now getting better with new nozle technology </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ray, the point I am making in regards to spelling is, how can you expect anyone to take what you're saying on a technical subject as a credible resource of information when you misspell words that your average 4th grader can nail?

Reminds me of the joke about the two guys in the plane:

One guy wants to start a conversation with another he just met about nuclear power and how it harms the environment, so the other guy said "I have a question for you first". So he asks, "Horses crap in large balls, cows crap in large clumps, and goats crap in small pellets...if they all eat pretty much the same thing, why is this so?" The guy didn't know, so the other replies "let me get this straight, you don't know ***** yet you want to talk about nuclear power?"

And what does my very limited knowledge on blowers and fuel injection (especially relating to "nostalgia tune ups") have anything to do with this discussion or with the modern day top fuel tuneup? Nonetheless, fuel nozzle technology has changed very little in the last 10 years, even though fuel cars have increased MPH by at least 30 and dropped ET's into the sub 4.5 second zone. They still pop blowers and intakes from time to time too, just like they did in the past. How you can compare a modern fuel engine that is pumping 90+ GPM of fuel into the engine to that of even a Pro Mod nitrous injected engine pumping nowhere near the same amount of fuel into it is beyond me.

[ofm7432]

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to try out the DCS-101 Nitrous Power controller. Seeing as I'm not going to be racing every weekend, this may help to prolong the life of the solenoids. I also like the tune-ability and the consistancy you can get from the controller. Like everything else.... if your gonna to play with the bull, you have to be prepared to take the horns.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Brain. The reason they popped a lot of blowers in the past was the Nitro mix.
I think NHRA finally decided that 90% Nitro to 10 % alcohol is a lot safer and track/time constraint/cleanup friendly.

Nitro is basically like a nitrous engine, except the air charge, etc is containted in the mix itself instead of adding the two together as in a Nitrous combo. Nitro is it's own Power adder even without a blower.

MB1966: Just make sure it's a good unit. When they first came out there were a lot of issues with them. More so then not, it was the design/quality of the product or tuner that was 90% of the problem.

[Region Warrior]

Hay Brian, did you eat alot today? Hydrolic cylinoid. Hyrdrolic sowlinoid. hidrolic solynod. Spelling isnt my problem, typing without looking is. I'm a novice when it comes to nitrous, but i can put 3800lb NA car in nines. 8's are looking better all the time.

[Brian Baker]

Yes, I had enough to eat today. You?

Can you get that 3800 lbs. into the 9's naturally aspirated with d-ports and a 850 Holley?

Ken, dropping the fuel back to 90% didn't realy make it "safer", it just made it so they'd have to pump more fuel into the engine. Now they're at 85% in an effort to slow them down, but it hasn't yet.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Yea, safer. And when is 7000 hp safe anyway. LOL.

[Region Warrior]

No, not yet Brian. I have a plan with my old 400/#12Dport/Q-jet carb for my 79TA. But at 3400lbs without alot of $$ and breakage?