[Cammer-6]

I parted a 67 400 many years ago and later found build sheet under the rear seat.
Read something like San Francisco auto show Jan 27 67.
It was body #40.
My guess is it was a GM show car....
Sure wish I had found that BEFORE I cut it up.

[bobzdar]

I found the intact build sheet in my uncle's car under the rear seat. I stuck my hand under and could feel the end of it sticking out under the burlap. We then discovered that it also had a fold down rear seat when trying to get the seat bottom out . He's had the car for around 20 years and never knew it had a folding rear seat.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Kurt S

I don't think the inspection sheets were legal documents. They documented the buy-off of the car by the various dept's and helped keep track of necessary repairs.
JohnZ will know for sure.

I'm pretty sure they were.

My recollection is that they had to be kept for 10 years; that they were a "discoverable document" during any legal/recall investigations against GM and could be used as evidence in a court of law.

At least that's what I think I remember from my days at Chevrolet Flint Assembly (1979-1986) -

K

[Kurt S]

I asked JohnZ and he said:

Not true. You'd need a building the size of the Rose Bowl to store all those inspection tickets (in those days, GM built 40,000 cars and trucks every day. At Lordstown, we retained them for 30 days to compare against any early warranty claims, and pitched them. Any corporate attorney will tell you that the LAST thing you want to keep (document retention) is anything discoverable that doesn't relate directly to tax liability. Document retention policy is pretty much the same across the industry - if it has no other business purpose and doesn't pertain to federal tax liability, pitch it after 30 days.

John

[8point]

I found this one behind the dash in my 67 400 firebird conv.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Kurt S

I asked JohnZ and he said: "Not true. You'd need a building the size of the Rose Bowl to store all those inspection tickets (in those days, GM built 40,000 cars and trucks every day. At Lordstown, we retained them for 30 days to compare against any early warranty claims, and pitched them. Any corporate attorney will tell you that the LAST thing you want to keep (document retention) is anything discoverable that doesn't relate directly to tax liability. Document retention policy is pretty much the same across the industry - if it has no other business purpose and doesn't pertain to federal tax liability, pitch it after 30 days.

John"

I stand corrected.

Having given it the benefit of further thought, I probably should have said that the inspection tickets were purposefully gathered up and saved; not pitched like the build sheets.

Anything beyond that (as far as length of storage) was speculation on my part.

Thanks for the follow up -

PM sent.

K

[Kurt S]

Keith asked about JohnZ's bio.
It's at the end of http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

JohnZ is an amazing asset to the hobby and all-around nice guy.
He recently got nominated to the Corvette Hall of Fame.

[Keith Seymore]

Bringing this back to the top:

You all are probably already familiar with the "Pontiac Pours it on for 1971" video series, as posted on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=393KP...eature=related

I am adding this here now because I just had a chance to watch it, but mostly because in several of the later sections you can see these "Inspection tickets" that we have been discussing.

In segment 7 (at the 2:20 mark) , you can see the brake evacuation and fill operation. Brakes are then pressure tested and you can see the inspector writing on the repair ticket and placing it in the machine where it is stamped, showing its approval. I ran this corresponding area, as a student, at the truck plant for several months (...went through a lot of penny loafers because of the brake fluid...). I am reminded that if the ticket was rolled up and placed in the coils of the brake lines that would indicate a repair or a retest was required. The line would occasionally be stopped at this location (...very rarely...) if a few more precious seconds were required to complete the repair or retest.

To discuss the "evac and fill" operation for just a second: this machine was a big "vacuum pump" and actually sucked all the air out of the completed brake system. Brake fluid was then allowed to flow into the system, using the pulled vacuum as the driver. Brakes were not bled as a matter of course; only as a repair procedure. The system was then tested by placing a unit on the back of the master cylinder which then applied brake pressure. Leaks or soft brakes could be detected and if, after a certain time period, no problems were noted then the green light would come on and the ticket stamped that the brakes were OK.

The other area I ran, as my first "real" job after graduating, was the Fender Set area, as shown from 1:34 - 1:45. My area started just after body drop and extended down to "hood set". We installed the fenders, batteries, manual shift levers and spare tires, and tightened down the box bolts (plus any body mount bolts the previous area missed!). I had 27 production operations on the line, plus a couple absentee replacements, a couple "Utility men", on repair man on each side of the line plus one Quality Man (which is your "right hand" man), for a total of about 39 hourly employees.


Segment 7 also shows some nice shots of the build manifest (build sheet) in use on the trim line, and the "wheel lug multiple" on the chassis line (all 5 wheel lug nuts are tightened at the same time).

You can also see the inspectors writing and buying off on the work tickets at the end of the trim line and at the end of the final line in segments 8 and 9.

FWIW -

K

[Cammer-6]

I havent seen the You Tube series before,thanks for sharing that with us!

[Blue70]

I just pulled a Broadcast sheet out of the passenger seat and it's not even for my car. It is for a Coronado Gold car and mine is Fathom blue....common thing apparently to find the wrong one in your car...this is the 4th time it has happened to me out of 7 that i have found. If you have a Coronado Gold car , let me know cos if this is for your car it's your lucky day ! Shane.

[Kurt S]

Here's a inspection ticket:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=180399334683

[f-bodynut]

On the 67 birds I always find it tucked up in the passenger side seat bottom . Usually waded up and shoved up in the seat bottom springs. I've found some 68 bird ones built at Lordstown in the same location. I have a regimental red 67 400 car that had a new gas filler door down inside the passenger side cowl when it was disassembled. The studs had never even had nuts on them, painted red as the car was. My guess is someone on the line dropped it down there and could not retrieve it so they just grabbed another one and put on the car and let it go. The original owner probably wondered what the hell that rattle was all those years!!!

Kane

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Bringing this back to the top:

You all are probably already familiar with the "Pontiac Pours it on for 1971" video series, as posted on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=393KP...eature=related

I am adding this here now because I just had a chance to watch it, but mostly because in several of the later sections you can see these "Inspection tickets" that we have been discussing.

In segment 7 (at the 2:20 mark) , you can see the brake evacuation and fill operation. Brakes are then pressure tested and you can see the inspector writing on the repair ticket and placing it in the machine where it is stamped, showing its approval. I ran this corresponding area, as a student, at the truck plant for several months (...went through a lot of penny loafers because of the brake fluid...). I am reminded that if the ticket was rolled up and placed in the coils of the brake lines that would indicate a repair or a retest was required. The line would occasionally be stopped at this location (...very rarely...) if a few more precious seconds were required to complete the repair or retest.

To discuss the "evac and fill" operation for just a second: this machine was a big "vacuum pump" and actually sucked all the air out of the completed brake system. Brake fluid was then allowed to flow into the system, using the pulled vacuum as the driver. Brakes were not bled as a matter of course; only as a repair procedure. The system was then tested by placing a unit on the back of the master cylinder which then applied brake pressure. Leaks or soft brakes could be detected and if, after a certain time period, no problems were noted then the green light would come on and the ticket stamped that the brakes were OK.

The other area I ran, as my first "real" job after graduating, was the Fender Set area, as shown from 1:34 - 1:45. My area started just after body drop and extended down to "hood set". We installed the fenders, batteries, manual shift levers and spare tires, and tightened down the box bolts (plus any body mount bolts the previous area missed!). I had 27 production operations on the line, plus a couple absentee replacements, a couple "Utility men", on repair man on each side of the line plus one Quality Man (which is your "right hand" man), for a total of about 39 hourly employees.


Segment 7 also shows some nice shots of the build manifest (build sheet) in use on the trim line, and the "wheel lug multiple" on the chassis line (all 5 wheel lug nuts are tightened at the same time).

You can also see the inspectors writing and buying off on the work tickets at the end of the trim line and at the end of the final line in segments 8 and 9.

FWIW -

K

this video is gone.

I never saw it is it located anywhere else?

[johnta1]

The guy had all kinds of Pontiac plant videos.
Someone complained and he had to pull them all.

I wondered if it was Pontiac or someone who was going to sell the videos on cd's or something?

[turbo69bird]

that sucks, how can wikipidia get away with pulling info in but some poor guy cant post some videos on you tube of cars on an assembly line.

man I wish I had seen those, you think hed have them on a private web site somehwere we'd all know about

[PMD1969]

I had my 69 interior completely apart in 93-94 and never found any documents. The car had the original interior intact before I replaced the material.

[turbo69bird]

I have 3 cars right now with original interior in them and didnt find anything in any of them. "yet"

so I can totally beleive that

I havent had the front seat backs off on any of them though.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

I have 3 cars right now with original interior in them and didnt find anything in any of them. "yet"

so I can totally beleive that

I havent had the front seat backs off on any of them though.

I may be wrong but the buckets came as an assembly so they wouldnt have removed the backs just to put a piece of paper in the car.
It may not have been placed anywhere on purpose,just left there and the build continued.
Almost like the car was the trashcan

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

It may not have been placed anywhere on purpose,just left there and the build continued.
Almost like the car was the trashcan

Absolutely correct.

It was easier to leave the sheet where it was and build the car than it was to remove the sheet and throw it away.

That's why you find them with screws shot through them, covered in undercoating or chassis black, etc.

K

[turbo69bird]

very interesting
thanks guys