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njsteve · 01-06-2013, 08:34 PM

Actually, that is an original GM piece that was on the car already. It had no bend at all and I had to bend it up a little bit to mate with the tab on the collar.

OVERULD · 01-06-2013, 08:53 PM

Steve:
Looks great! I've fought this battle on my GTO since the day I bought it. As difficult as it was to get yours to line up just right - imagine adding to it the task of getting the two support brackets to line up with the studs on the bottom of the Thermacs! I notice your air breather doesn't have those studs -was that a GTO only characteristic?

BJ

njsteve · 01-06-2013, 08:59 PM

I think the mountIng stud issue is still under debate, based on date of installation and whether its a later replacement piece or assembly line piece.

njsteve · 01-09-2013, 07:46 AM

I've been doing a little bit of carb tuning the past few days. I ended up using the same recipe of jets, primary and secondary rods that I used in the 1972 T/A project. This recipe was passed along to me from other far more knowledgable members here.

The end result is the following for my original 7042273 carb: 74 jets, 44 primary rods and BE secondary rods. The 1972 7042273 carbs were way too lean from the factory and definitely need more fuel than the emissions lean factory setup, if you want them to run right. The Formula is running the stock 068 cam, a four speed, and a 3.42 rear gear which is the same driveline I had in the T/A.

I gotta tell you, the car really comes alive with this setup. When you hit the sweet spot in the power band at around 3,000 rpm, the rear tires break loose in first gear, regardless on how angrily your foot is positioned on the gas pedal. I'll post some video when I can figure out how to drive, shift and film at the same time...

165th · 01-09-2013, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njsteve

The end result is the following for my original 7042273 carb: 74 jets, 44 primary rods and BE secondary rods. The 1972 7042273 carbs were way too lean from the factory and definitely need more fuel than the emissions lean factory setup, if you want them to run right. The Formula is running the stock 068 cam, a four speed, and a 3.42 rear gear which is the same driveline I had in the T/A.

Hi Steve, thanks for the hot set up. Where did you source these parts? I'd like to give this set up a try on an upcoming dyno run I have scheduled for the WD. It would be interesting to test the stock kit of parts and then switch to this set up to compare.

njsteve · 10:00 AM

Do you have any local carb rebuilders in your area? Lloyd or Rocky Rotella may be able to steer you to the right source. Summit or Jegs has jets and primary rods I believe. PY has some too, but the BE or BL coded secondary rods are hard to find.

Attached are a couple articles/charts that listed the various combinations and tuning tips that I found helpful (along with a lot of advice from people here). The yellow highlighted recipes were ones that I was finagling with to see what combinations of parts I had on hand would lead to what fuel mixture. The charts had the math all predone so I didnt have to play with a calulator.

I sent the carb to Cliff's High Performance and he did an awesome job. The carb ran great when tested on the "seat of the pants dyno" in the prior mismatched cam/high compression state but once I did the engine overhaul, I noticed the carb was little lean on the top end for my post engine rebuild combination. (since we didn't know what was inside the engine at the time, he tuned it to what he thought best).

Here are the measurements for the combination of parts I had in my tool box at the time:

Jet/Rod...Cruise area...WOT area......Secondary Rod
71/43 = 2.5070..........3.4283..........CR .0550 S (72 T/A 7042273 stock configuration)
73/42 = 2.7999..........3.6545
73/43 = 2.7332..........3.6545
74/47 = 2.5659..........3.7699
74/44 = 2.7803..........3.7699..........BE .0413 S (72 T/A tuned configuration)
74/43 = 2.8486..........3.7699..........BE .0413 S (Formula tuned configuration)
72/39 = 2.8769..........3.5406..........DA .0443 M (Cliff tuned configuration)

At the moment I have the 43 primary rod in the carb and it's a touch richer than it would be with a 44 rod, since it is a new engine I dont want to lean it out too much. Once the weather clears I will play some more. But this should give you something to have some fun with on the dyno. You must post the results, of course!

PB · 01-09-2013, 03:27 PM

My 7042273 I just got back from cliff was set up with 72 jets, 39 primary rods, and DA secondary rods. My engine has not been apart. I haven't had it out yet to give her a good flogging, don't know when I will be able to...

njsteve · 01-09-2013, 06:26 PM

BTW, FormulaBruce had a good comment he sent me in a PM. You have to remember that all commercially available fuels nowadays have at least 10% ethanol in them. That means the original metering setup in the carbs are going to be very lean...by at least 10%

If I do my math correctly, the "tuned" setup listed above is around 10% richer than the stock setup.

70RAlll · 01-10-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njsteve

BTW, FormulaBruce had a good comment he sent me in a PM. You have to remember that all commercially available fuels nowadays have at least 10% ethanol in them. That means the original metering setup in the carbs are going to be very lean...by at least 10%

If I do my math correctly, the "tuned" setup listed above is around 10% richer than the stock setup.

There are many stations that offer NON Ethanol fuel. There are two associations that have websites and I know one offers a Nationwide search engine for locating local non ethanol stations. I found one with in a mile of my house, use non ethanol on all my gas burning vehicles.. So ethanol really shouldn't be an issue.. Here the cost is 3 cents more per gallon.. no big deal.. Here are links:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

http://www.buyrealgas.com/

Here is a list of different sites:

http://www.fueltestkit.com/find_etha..._gasoline.html

No reason to be forced to put alcohol in your gas tank..

firstyearta · 01-10-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njsteve

Got the Gardner exhaust in today, changed the oil and took her out for a 60 mile road test. She ran great and rides beautifully. Of course the rear main seal started dripping from all those years of sitting. Typical...

I would love to know what is inside the engine when it comes to pistons and head work since preignition was rearing its ugly head at part throttle even with good gas. I guess this winter I will find out when I pull the engine to reseal everything.

Here are a couple shots of the exhaust and the repainted frame rails. The new KYB shocks came in a nice GM shade of vintage GM silver grey.

Oh, and the rear springs that I had de-arched one inch sit very nicely now on the 235/60x15s (the radial equivilent of the F60x15). They now match the ride height of the original springs in my T/A. The next project is installing the special front coil springs I had made with a one-inch drop from the stock spec. Right now the front is higher than the rear by about 3/4".

Can you tell me about your black frame rails?
Are they just sprayed black because your car is original black?
That just seems like way more black than just over spray?
Was the entire inner well painted black?
The reason I ask is...
About six months ago I'd mentioned in another thread that the entire underside of my '73 Formula was red oxide except for the outside of the frame rails where it appears they were sprayed black. I asked if this was factory and all the info that I received back said, "nope, they should have been red oxide".
Just wanting to confirm that.
Thanks!

njsteve · 01-11-2013, 07:55 AM

You are correct. The frame rails were sprayed at the factory with body color and then the wheel wells were undercoated. On my white T/A, the same areas were white. I reproduced the same amount of black after the frame repair, that was on the rails prior to the repair. The photos I posted just after the pressure washing show the extent of where the overspray landed.

I just used a light mist of flat black to reproduce the overspray. If you notice the triangular snubber bracket, it still has its original black overspray and it a little "flatter" looking than the area I blacked out. Once I drove the car a bit and got it dirty, they matched pretty well.

njsteve · 01-11-2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70RAlll

There are many stations that offer NON Ethanol fuel. There are two associations that have websites and I know one offers a Nationwide search engine for locating local non ethanol stations. I found one with in a mile of my house, use non ethanol on all my gas burning vehicles.. So ethanol really shouldn't be an issue.. Here the cost is 3 cents more per gallon.. no big deal.. Here are links:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

http://www.buyrealgas.com/

Here is a list of different sites:

http://www.fueltestkit.com/find_etha..._gasoline.html

No reason to be forced to put alcohol in your gas tank..

I couldnt find any non-ethanol stations in NJ. I think the lawyers stopped the sale of real gas here, other than aviation and race fuels.

njsteve · 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstyearta

Can you tell me about your black frame rails?
Are they just sprayed black because your car is original black?
That just seems like way more black than just over spray?
Was the entire inner well painted black?
The reason I ask is...
About six months ago I'd mentioned in another thread that the entire underside of my '73 Formula was red oxide except for the outside of the frame rails where it appears they were sprayed black. I asked if this was factory and all the info that I received back said, "nope, they should have been red oxide".
Just wanting to confirm that.
Thanks!

Here's a similar overspray shot of my 72 T/A built a week before the Formula. The white on the frame rails is the original overspray. Ignore the white on the undercoating, that is from a later paint job. It appears that the assemby line paint workers would shoot some color on the frame rails and ignore the wheel wells because the wells were going to be undercoated later on the line.

And the post pressure washed shot of the rear wheel well prior to the frame repair.

firstyearta · 01-11-2013, 10:57 AM

Thanks for the info. I guess at some point someone must have just sprayed them black (as my car was originally red). It's just odd that they have almost exactly the same amount of over spray on them as your car and it's pretty much only on the face of the rail around the wheel well plus some on the side of the truck floor and it's the only area under the car that isn't perfect condition red oxide.

I've been debating how to fix it (as it won't clean off) by re spraying them black or trying to match the red oxide. But I guess if I was looking to make the car original, I'd spray these areas body color (originally red but now blue). Not sure I really need to get that carried away since while the car is stock in appearance, it's not really original (color that is).

njsteve · 01-20-2013, 03:31 PM

Spent the day doing my mid-winter, out of hiberaton, engine start up.

It was a nice day so I got the hemi charger up and running for the first time in a year. She started right up, so I took her out for a slow ride on the 40+ year old tires that the original owner installed back in the day. Sure rides different than the Firebird. :-)

There's nothing like modern radials!