[65madgoat]

I realize only so many 1971 to 1974/75? manual cars were made and thus have the simulated leather shifter knob, but hoping the early 2nd gen Firebird experts can shine some light on this.

I am aware the early (71-73/74/75?) 4 speed shift knobs for Trans Am were noted to have a raised emblem on top - to where you can see the chrome edge of the emblem.

Later 70s emblems were flat/recessed on the top of knob, with poorly made reproductions marketed for 'all 1970-1981' to be that same style.

What I have noticed is that apparently some of these early 'raised emblem' shift knobs sometimes show a ridge below/around the emblem to the edge of the knob, while others seemingly have the emblem still raised with the chrome of the emblem visible, but not showing any ridge on the knob top.

So which one is original to what years?

Can anyone comment on these differences?

I have attached multiple photos for comparison of these early 'raised emblem' knobs. The first pic and also the 3 speed knob clearly shows that recessed area on top below the emblem.

The last 2 pics here show a still 'raised emblem' version knob, which apparently is correct for early 2nds gens (just don't know which years), but no ridge like seen on the others.

Was one for a 1971? Or 1972/1973? Or what. Curious to get to the bottom of this especially with these 'raised emblem' shifter knobs being so hard to find and worth so much.

Thanks.

[65madgoat]

More pics of one with the emblem raised, but no ridge around the knob top below it.

And then the NOS -late- 1970s knob for comparison with completely recessed and flat emblem in it.

And the last photo is of the ridge version (the knob where you see a ridge when emblem is mounted).

[65madgoat]

Where are my 1971 to 1974 three pedal 2nd gen owners?

[unruhjonny]

I will start out with this;
The multiple different reproductions out there - with various quality levels sure do not help matters.

I have all four versions of the three speed knobs used in second gen cars, as well as some of the four speed stuff.

The "raised aluminum insert" was actually am aluminum part which was painted, and had a layer of epoxy(?) set on top.
I have a couple used aluminum four speed inserts that are missing the epoxy top (which presumably took the paint with it.
I have personally handled many of the aluminum insert four speed knobs, but do not own one.

First:
It appears that when the black oversized round ball knobs were phased out, the leather knobs were phased in;
My opinion (not founded in any hard facts, mostly conjecture) is that four speeds were built in higher numbers than three speeds;
Because of the difference in build numbers you will see change over at different times - and presumably less orders needed to be filled out for GM on three speed parts.

I believe that the black ball was used in three speed cars through to 1973, while it was phased out on four speed cars in 1971;
It is worth noting that (my understanding is that) the same oversized black ball was used on the A-bodies through 1973 regaurdless of transmission.

Second:
I believe that the raised insert on the aluminum base was in essence an update on the insert used prior to 1970 with the wood knobs;
This is why the "early 1970" simulated leather knobs had the same red inserts used on the earlier wood knobs.
The updated insert was the same construction, but a different design on a "new" handle.

I believe that the raised insert (on an aluminum base) was phased out for the 1977 model year.

Third:
I believe that during the production run there were two running changes that may have created an unintended extra variant as far as purist restorers are concerned;
1) cheaper insert/emblem
2) revised handle to set insert/emblem flush

Summary:
Four speed:
1971.5 through 1976.5 = raised insert on aluminum base
1976.5-1978(?) = slightly raised insert; insert is 100% acrylic(?) with simulated silver edge
1979-1981 = flush insert; 100% acrylic with simulated silver edge

---

Where the three speed and four speed knobs differed is the raised/aluminum insert was never used with the three speed - other than the pre-production/early production 1970 cars;
This means the three speed design shown in prior posts has never (to my knowledge) been found on an aluminum base;
Instead, when the black ball was phased out for the three speed handle, PMD immediately swapped to an insert with a black plastic base more akin to what was used on period key fobs (keep in mind three speeds were rarely an option, so keeping all components cheap would have been a priority).
I believe that a simulated leather or wood knob was generally as far as a dealership parts department, and was often ordered.

Three speed:
1970 through 1973(?) = black ball
1973(?) through 1978(?) = raised insert on black base
1979-1981 = flush insert; 100% acrylic

----

The worst offender in my opinion of the four speed reproduction knobs is the one which uses an insert that is like what older key fobs used - and this "sticker" is set into the recess on the knob... they just look awful.

[65madgoat]

So you are saying the knob shown with the recession ridge below the raised emblem is 1971.5 to 1976.5
and the knob with the slightly raised emblem is 1976.5-1978 ?

[unruhjonny]

I am suggesting that the knob with the aluminum insert was used up to 1976;
I am suggesting that the knob with the slightly raised acrylic insert was probably used through 1978;
I am suggesting that the knob with the flush mounted acrylic insert was likely the last version, used 1979 through 1981.

I believe that as far as the rubber encased knob sub-assembly is concerned, it changed around or prior to 1979 - so all knobs prior to that had the insert sitting up;
I believe your second post, fourth image (below) is the first design knob sub-assembly used through to 1978(?)



I have one NOS three speed, and two used four speed knobs which do not have that raised center.

[65madgoat]

That raised version I think may be the earliest - and thus why so pricey to attain.

Heck even the slightly raised version (but with no round ridge showing below when emblem is mounted) might be pre 1976 and still commands a premium.

See these two versions are what I am most concerned with knowing the years of.

See how the knobs are different but emblems about the same style being acrylic with chrome edge.... (First and third photos are the same with that exposed ridge below emblem)

[unruhjonny]

here;

later knob (without raised section) beside both styles of insert:

[65madgoat]

Then this one is what year since it does not appear to have the raised part in the knob, yet the emblem seems the same being raised with chrome and unlike the flat insert and current reproduction...

[unruhjonny]

I believe that IS the knob with the raised center;
that one has an early aluminum insert.

maybe one of the confusing elements is enviroment, and plastic/rubber distortion/shrinkage;
depending on the life of any given knob they can lightly deform, which might make the insert seem to stand more proud than originally manufactured.

[65madgoat]

Emblem of course is raised, but notice there is no "ridge" or recession as in these below the emblem

['ol Pinion head]

My '72 T/A project has its original raised insert style 4 spd knob/Hurst shifter. Have an identical, also very nice condtion raised insert style knob for upcoming '73 T/A project, never noticed any difference between the two knobs. When can come up w time will pull them out & take pics. Have several original late style flush mount knobs as well.

[unruhjonny]

Four speed:
1) 1971.5 through 1976.5 = raised insert on aluminum base

AND


2) 1976.5-1978(?) = slightly raised insert; insert is 100% acrylic(?) with simulated silver edge
(none pictured in this thread so far)

3) 1979-1981 = flush insert; 100% acrylic with simulated silver edge


Three speed:
1) 1970 through 1973(?) = black ball
(not pictured in this thread)

2) 1973(?) through 1978(?) = raised insert on black base


3) 1979-1981 = flush insert; 100% acrylic
(not pictured in this thread)

I believe that the soft vinyl cover does shrink and recede at either the top (so a gap becomes apparent around the insert), or at the bottom (so the base where the nut portion is encased appears to be well below the rest of the knob) - or both.

The three speed "version 2" appears to have an insert which IS slightly smaller in both diameter and thickness than both styles of four speed inserts.

[unruhjonny]

I will also add that I believe the market for these has softened somewhat;
For a while the knobs that showed up with the aluminum insert all had asking prices of around $200-$250;
The repops took a LOT of steam out of the value.

That damaged one I was considering buying a while ago, but I really don't need to spend upwards of $140 in my currency just to have something sit on a shelf - and I'd wager the damage alone is why it hasn't sold yet.

[71GP76TA]

My 72's

[65madgoat]

Yes perfect. Thanks 71GP76TA!

My guess is that this style like on your 1972 was original on 1971-1973 (maybe to 1974?) and then the other raised lucite emblem (but without the recessed ridge below showing like in your photo) was from after 1974 to 1976 or so --- and maybe to 1978?

[65madgoat]

Can anyone say with certainty what year Trans Am this style knob was found on?

Raised emblem so not late 70s, but not on a raised aluminum insert like known 1972 style shown above by 71GP76TA

Any idea what actual year or years this version was used on?

Thanks!

[unruhjonny]

I will try to say this another way;
It would not be adventageous for GM to have modified the design several times.

It is my belief that the insert was changed for 1977;
I believe that for a period after the insert was changed, the sub assembly was unchanged.

I believe that any differences observed on original knob assemblies with the aluminum insert, are differences that appeared over time from the conditions in which it survived.

The handle has a vinyl skin, and it shrinks - somewhat inconstantly
sometimes it shrinks and recedes from the top;
Sometimes the bottom;
other times on both ends.

[65madgoat]

No it is clearly two different models of knob with a raised emblem - one where the raised emblem is still fitting perfectly on top - and the other one (as shown by 71GP76TA on his 1972) which has a pronounced ridge cavity below it. Nothing to do with shrinkage of the knob.

Notice the cavity below the emblem on one knob, and no cavity whatsoever on the other. The one with the cavity has that aluminum that raises the emblem as shown on the OEM knob on the 1972 photo shown by 71GP76TA.

Then of course there is that 3rd style which is the last version Pontiac used (and current repop style) of a completely flat emblem in the knob.

My best guess is 1971 to maybe 1974 for style shown by 71GP76TA; then another one to 1977. Then flat emblem knob from 1978 to the end.

Heck Pontiac changed steering wheel suppliers multiple times in the decade (at least 4 or 5+) so would not be unprecedented to have 3 different knob styles and manufacturers.

[Held for Ransom]

I can't find my early '74 MY knob (center emblem was crooked). I'll keep looking.
But, here is my early '73 MY knob and the replacement for the '74.