[67'7F6'Bird]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

I shouldn't get involved in the commentary, but being from the area, I have seen some of the parts first hand. The headers fit fine on the mockup chassis/block/heads/valve covers supplied to Joe at Cartel. I do not know if the mockup components came from Ed or Lynn, but I saw the headers fit in a chassis that was a 69 Bird. I personally thought the headers were a work of art. They were tucked tightly against the heads/valve covers and looked good. I don't know the dialogue between parties and what was agreed or expected (and it is not my business), but the headers fit the components that were provided as a jig for fabrication. I work full time as an engineer for a multi-billion dollar company that currently uses Cartel for prototype machining/prototype engine builds. We have run no less than 30 complete prototype engine builds through his shop in the last 2 years, that go straight to an endurance dyno cell and pull rated power for 1000-2000 hours. My experience has been that they have good attention to detail and Joe is one of the best fabricators that I have seen during the 14 years I have been in automotive research and development. I'm just one person with an opinion I guess.

I'm having a hard time with the machine work pictures. Tony has done work for us LONG before anyone in the Pontiac world even knew of BES (late 80's/early 90's). They are a stand up group of folks from my experiences and very knowledgeable. On more than one occassion, we have taken problematic blocks/cranks/heads done by other shops (some Pontiac/some not) down to Tony and they find/resolve the issue. The issues at hand are definitely not typical of their business. Hopefully your concerns are addressed.

I've seen the headers first hand when they arrived and they "Do Not Fit" with the Valve covers prescribed and supplied for the build. You can't even get a side bolted on completely to the heads or get more than a few bolts/studs to fit at one time on each side. Also, the tubes are crooked, minimal effort was applied in the tube to tube welding with bad angles were each section meets the next, steps created at junction points, overall Very Poor Quality welding. Basically they SUCK.