[aronhk_md]

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

[texasdave]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

I would be interested in a similar deal if that would get my headers shipped. At this point I'm just looking to protect the initial investment.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

Another good Idea I think!

[SD421]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

When the headers are ready to be welded they have already been tack welded here and there.

BUT they still need to be held down in the jig to prevent any movement for final welding.

So good idea but unfortunately, it wont work.

Don

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by SD421

When the headers are ready to be welded they have already been tack welded here and there.

BUT they still need to be held down in the jig to prevent any movement for final welding.

So good idea but unfortunately, it wont work.

Don

I just wonder how you think they weld one of, custom headers together? There isn't a jig for them, they mock them up in the car and remove them to weld them up. At least that's the way I have built my own headers for a custom application in the past. Maybe I was doing it wrong though.

But it did work.

[aronhk_md]

I thought that maybe tack welds in several locations would hold it all well enough. But I have been told by someone who has seen it first hand that there is still possible movement after that if not in the jig.......and if it does move you are scr*wed without the jig......sigh. I'm guessing a bad bump while in the box could separate what you have, and then its useless.

I'm just a bystander.....please dont shoot me.....lol. Regardless, I still think he is working on getting them finished to deliver. Dont give up guys.

[bonneville Joe]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I just wonder how you think they weld one of, custom headers together? There isn't a jig for them, they mock them up in the car and remove them to weld them up. At least that's the way I have built my own headers for a custom application in the past. Maybe I was doing it wrong though.

But it did work.

This is just from my welding experience, and I've never welded headers but the only way I could see this method working is if you have a TIG welder. Most custom header builders use TIG. It's tougher to use, takes more skill and takes longer but the payback is the weld is much cleaner and cooler. The key is the cooler part. MIG welders heat the metal much more rapidly which distorts it. It would have to be in a jig to MIG weld it to keep it all uniform to its intended shape.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by bonneville Joe

This is just from my welding experience, and I've never welded headers but the only way I could see this method working is if you have a TIG welder. Most custom header builders use TIG. It's tougher to use, takes more skill and takes longer but the payback is the weld is much cleaner and cooler. The key is the cooler part. MIG welders heat the metal much more rapidly which distorts it. It would have to be in a jig to MIG weld it to keep it all uniform to its intended shape.

I welded mine with a mig and oxy acetylene, key is to weld one part a little and then weld somewhere else so the heat isn't concentrated. Just a little experience and common sense is all it takes, no magic involved.

[TUNNEL PORT]

1st off there are two sets of headers shipping this week (if I can get them to UPS before 6pm Fri.) & they have already been notified. There are more going out next week. Those guys will be notified at that time. If any of them choose to post that’s up to them I don’t care either way but would prefer that they do. Since its hard for me to post pics on the web at this time. One of those sets is scheduled for a dyno.

I will email/PM all guys when they are ready to put in the box.

As aronhk_md posted about the reason why I wasn’t posting its true. I made sure that until I got something that I could post as news that was certain. This meaning that its not something I’m waiting for & there was no way it could end up not happening. Because this would be seen as the same old ----. Because I’m sure that no matter what I do or how many times I go broke I’ll always be the crook. If no ones caught a clue yet, Im not one to give up easy.

Someone is genuinely helping me now. Not like the type of help like that Tin Tiger was trying to do. Where he tried to scam me out of my business & put his greedy needs ahead of all the past customers. All the while playing to the public like he wanted to help. Then posting lies about me & passing himself off as an innocent victim in the deal.

This new guy isn’t expecting anything in return in fact I received a tool today I have been needing for 6yrs now that is the one most important tool that will lower costs greatly on many parts of the build. It will cut times down on the most tedious parts by at least 10x.

He has helped me with not only that tool but he has many other sets of tooling on the way that will make all tube sizes possible in both Stainless & mild steal. What this means is that after I receive the other tooling & with the new tool I just received I will be able to make every part except for one on all the headers. I wont need to spend $20-$40 on a part I cant make many times over for just one set of headers. Unlike those big Co’s I’ll pass the savings through to the customers later in forms of other products.

Although he could help with the tooling he is not helping with any materials. That will need to solely come from sales. That’s the news I have & I will post again when I have more.

I have had more than my share of guys that weld. I went through 4-5 guys in Ca before getting the last guy. He turned out to be a great guy & offered a reasonable price. Too bad he’s so far away now.

As for the welders here, I thought that the flakey overpriced welders was just a Ca thing. I guess not since I have had the same results here.

I have got fed up with this cr@p & I have refined my welding skills enough to help in this area. I have also purchased a Tig welder that is working on portions of the job & is overall improving the headers. Although I still use the mig on some areas, its an evolving process that can only get better with the new tooling that at some point the Tig may take over in all areas.

Now please back to the worthless bashing because I may not post again…

PS. Sirrotica,
Your missing something important. Although even a blind, one armed monkey with his hand tied behind his back can build a 4-tube header because the tubes usually don’t interfere as much with each other. The tri-y drivers side layout for the tubing would complicate things way to much without a jig. That header has to be welded in only one way or you screw yourself & cant reach other welds. The pass side is far easier but still has welding issues. Lets be clear on this I’m not calling you a monkey. All Im saying is it will take that same monkey to either have site or the extra arm OK. There a difference in 4-tube & tri-y’s that even the header Co’s will say it takes a few extra steps in many areas.

Bonne Joe,
Tigs great in some areas but the way the Y’s are is still best welded with the mig because of some gaps. With my new tooling I hope to minimize that issue especially around the ports

[floffy]

Ron,

Nice to see you back.
You probably read about welding the headers ourself; WOuld that make things easier for you and would that be possible without a jig??
If not and i order a set what would be the time frame you can deliver? round port sec. gen 2 1/8 prim.

Daan

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by TUNNEL PORT

PS. Sirrotica,
Your missing something important. Although even a blind, one armed monkey with his hand tied behind his back can build a 4-tube header because the tubes usually don’t interfere as much with each other. The tri-y drivers side layout for the tubing would complicate things way to much without a jig. That header has to be welded in only one way or you screw yourself & cant reach other welds. The pass side is far easier but still has welding issues. Lets be clear on this I’m not calling you a monkey. All Im saying is it will take that same monkey to either have site or the extra arm OK. There a difference in 4-tube & tri-y’s that even the header Co’s will say it takes a few extra steps in many areas.

So your telling me the header is built in a jig and it can only be built that way? it can't be tacked together in sections and then assembled on the car and finish welded, I wonder how the prototype header was built then, or was the jig built before the header? Which came first, the jig or the prototype original header?

Ron, I wasn't born yesterday and the headers I built (admittedly they weren't tri Y style) were built on the car and welded up off the car. I have built enough custom exhaust to realize that welding the tubes up off the car can present it's own set of problems, but I have never used a jig and have successfully completed the ones I have started. I only have 2 arms am not blind either, and as far as I know I have no ancestry to apes, and with my obvious handicaps I still got them done. It is just is a question of fortitude and ingenuity. "Can't, never got a damn thing done" quote courtesy of my deceased father.

Building headers isn't easy no matter if your building 4 tube or tri Ys for the first time (hence the reason people make big bucks for custom headers), however it isn't rocket science and no voodoo or magic is involved either. I have never seen a jig or a mold built before the original pattern was made for any part.

[bonneville Joe]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I welded mine with a mig and oxy acetylene, key is to weld one part a little and then weld somewhere else so the heat isn't concentrated. Just a little experience and common sense is all it takes, no magic involved.

I weld on a daily basis. Replacing large patch panels requires you keep moving to not warp your panels. Same applies here. Problem with using a mig welder in this situation (bouncing back and forth) is you litterally open up the possiblity for having leaks in the tubing. TIG welders allows you to stay on the area you are working on to keep that clean "roll of nickles" look going. A look that you will probably want to keep instead of going back and griding the uglier mig welds. Your method would work just fine. It just depends on someone's skill level and equipment. It's not a question of someone is right and someone is wrong. It just depends on how you attack it and what you want as your final result.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by bonneville Joe

This is just from my welding experience, and I've never welded headers but the only way I could see this method working is if you have a TIG welder. Most custom header builders use TIG. It's tougher to use, takes more skill and takes longer but the payback is the weld is much cleaner and cooler. The key is the cooler part. MIG welders heat the metal much more rapidly which distorts it. It would have to be in a jig to MIG weld it to keep it all uniform to its intended shape.

This is the reason why you need the jig. The headers have been Mig welded & not Heli Arc'd (Tig Welded).

Bonneville Joe hit the nail on the head.

Don

[aronhk_md]

BVR421 - its also quite obvious that Ron has come back in an attempt to make good on old orders. Has he taken in new money? Yes. Are people still getting headers...both new and old orders? A bit here and a bit there. People running scams dont tend to set themselves up for this much abuse. They pull a fast one and disappear entirely, NEVER to be seen or heard from again. Thats the scammers profile.

You are right though.....there are pages and pages of Ron's story.....plenty of unhappy people through the years. Those who are still willing to give him a shot have done so........do you really feel the need to add a comment that while on the surface is quite mild yet carries an undercurrent of.....something else?



Regarding the jig question...........I think many here missed part of Ron's response, and the one part that actually kills the idea of tackwelding and then shipping for final welding later. He states clearly that unlike most 4 tube headers, these tri-y's due to placement of some of the middle tubes (and on a 4 tube there ARE NO middle tube pieces) you would be unable to successfully reach all the weld areas for final welding once they are all together (tacked). So essentially some pieces at least must be FULLY welded before the next piece is added on the jig.

Again, I want to point out I am not acting champion here for Ron. I am not his cheerleader. Just trying to keep the info as straight as possible since at various points I may have known a bit or two more than others. I WANT to see him succeed. But I am not recommending you or anyone buy headers from him. Only YOU the reader can make that decision for yourself. Do it with open eyes.

Ron, I'm rooting for you. Make it happen. Good luck.

[T/A Fanatic]

I purchased the new "Tri-Y" headers from Ron for my roundport motor in the very first original order. I've run them for about 6 years now, and have been very satisfied with their performance. Over the years, and especially lately, I've decided to replace the headers with the RARE manifolds. There is nothing wrong with the headers, I'm just slowing returning my '71 T/A to a stock configuration (or as close as I can get). Sometime this coming Fall I'll post up when I'm ready to sell, and someone will be able to get a set pretty quick, for a good price, although in a used condition.

I have followed this sage over the years as well. I too, feel for all those who have been waiting on their headers, and hope for the best for all involved.

Alan

[SD421]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

Regarding the jig question...........I think many here missed part of Ron's response, and the one part that actually kills the idea of tackwelding and then shipping for final welding later. He states clearly that unlike most 4 tube headers, these tri-y's due to placement of some of the middle tubes (and on a 4 tube there ARE NO middle tube pieces) you would be unable to successfully reach all the weld areas for final welding once they are all together (tacked). So essentially some pieces at least must be FULLY welded before the next piece is added on the jig.

Forgot about that. You do have to weld up each tube individually and that means having to remove the other tubes.

Good call Aron.

-Don