[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

And people are well aware of Doug's headers, but unfortunately on 2nd gen firebirds especially they hang way too low. It sucks to go over a couple of bumps at speed and smash the tubes of your new headers beyond recognition.

Not a flame - not at all. I am trying to help here. I get the feeling that for some guys they think that there is NO other option.

Now, I've got TWO 76 TA's that are stock ride height and I ABSOLUTELY argue otherwise. I have NEVER dragged either my doug's dports or round ports before. I've got KRE dports in one and Eheads in the other. I drive them frequently. Now, my eheaded one MUST need new leaf springs because I do drag the mufflers occasionally on hard dips at speed. NOT the headers. I am planning on replacing them - as they seem to below than my other TA.

One of the absolute beauties of PAYPAL is that you pay and if YOU DON'T GET, then you get a refund. When a seller accepts PAYPAL, my level of trust goes up huge.

No ill will here - I hope all works our for the seller AND the buyers here.




PS - there are other GOOD header options....lol. Maybe if you want to lower your TA, then the tri-Y's are the way to go..I don't know, no experience w/ dropped ride height cars.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by floffy

Because i can't get a hold on him and he doesn't respond to pm can you please ask him to contact me?? i can weld my own headers only need the parts so that will be easy money for him.

Daan

You need the jigs to keep the tubes in place in order to weld them up. Otherwise you'll have a set of headers that wont quite fit.

Don

[aronhk_md]

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

[aronhk_md]

Not sure where people are seeing the "cheerleaders" I'm the one doing a lot of the talking here, and I haven't in any way minimized the negatives. Every post I make sure to mention them. Do I think the positives outweigh the negatives right now? No. I really think there is no new money rolling in for Ron.

I dont talk to him that often. When I do I hear the frustration, and I get the sense he is still trying. Thats just my opinion though. If what he told me is true there is still hope for those waiting. Thats all I'll say.

On the other subject.....EVERY bird I've had has dragged 4 tube headers regardless of who made them, and I believe I've owned all the brands. Yes, some of my cars have been lowered, but some have probably just suffered from spring fatigue over the years. If it wasnt such a problem there wouldnt be thousands of posts across the internet with people complaining about every header out there.

[texasdave]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

I would be interested in a similar deal if that would get my headers shipped. At this point I'm just looking to protect the initial investment.

[crustysarge]

Not sure on the Paypal issue, there are time limits, I paid via AMEX on Paypal and quite frankly have not even thought about it because I want a set of Ron's headers. I am not crying but you do reach a point where you have to move on. I hope he comes through and though I don't know him personally I want to believe he trying.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

Another good Idea I think!

[SD421]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

I will try to ask him for you. Don, if the tubes are tack welded in place on the jig they could potentially be sent out that way and finished at destination? Again, I'll see if I can pass the message along. I dont know if I'm any better at reaching him or have just been lucky.

When the headers are ready to be welded they have already been tack welded here and there.

BUT they still need to be held down in the jig to prevent any movement for final welding.

So good idea but unfortunately, it wont work.

Don

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by SD421

When the headers are ready to be welded they have already been tack welded here and there.

BUT they still need to be held down in the jig to prevent any movement for final welding.

So good idea but unfortunately, it wont work.

Don

I just wonder how you think they weld one of, custom headers together? There isn't a jig for them, they mock them up in the car and remove them to weld them up. At least that's the way I have built my own headers for a custom application in the past. Maybe I was doing it wrong though.

But it did work.

[aronhk_md]

I thought that maybe tack welds in several locations would hold it all well enough. But I have been told by someone who has seen it first hand that there is still possible movement after that if not in the jig.......and if it does move you are scr*wed without the jig......sigh. I'm guessing a bad bump while in the box could separate what you have, and then its useless.

I'm just a bystander.....please dont shoot me.....lol. Regardless, I still think he is working on getting them finished to deliver. Dont give up guys.

[bonneville Joe]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I just wonder how you think they weld one of, custom headers together? There isn't a jig for them, they mock them up in the car and remove them to weld them up. At least that's the way I have built my own headers for a custom application in the past. Maybe I was doing it wrong though.

But it did work.

This is just from my welding experience, and I've never welded headers but the only way I could see this method working is if you have a TIG welder. Most custom header builders use TIG. It's tougher to use, takes more skill and takes longer but the payback is the weld is much cleaner and cooler. The key is the cooler part. MIG welders heat the metal much more rapidly which distorts it. It would have to be in a jig to MIG weld it to keep it all uniform to its intended shape.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by bonneville Joe

This is just from my welding experience, and I've never welded headers but the only way I could see this method working is if you have a TIG welder. Most custom header builders use TIG. It's tougher to use, takes more skill and takes longer but the payback is the weld is much cleaner and cooler. The key is the cooler part. MIG welders heat the metal much more rapidly which distorts it. It would have to be in a jig to MIG weld it to keep it all uniform to its intended shape.

I welded mine with a mig and oxy acetylene, key is to weld one part a little and then weld somewhere else so the heat isn't concentrated. Just a little experience and common sense is all it takes, no magic involved.

[TUNNEL PORT]

1st off there are two sets of headers shipping this week (if I can get them to UPS before 6pm Fri.) & they have already been notified. There are more going out next week. Those guys will be notified at that time. If any of them choose to post that’s up to them I don’t care either way but would prefer that they do. Since its hard for me to post pics on the web at this time. One of those sets is scheduled for a dyno.

I will email/PM all guys when they are ready to put in the box.

As aronhk_md posted about the reason why I wasn’t posting its true. I made sure that until I got something that I could post as news that was certain. This meaning that its not something I’m waiting for & there was no way it could end up not happening. Because this would be seen as the same old ----. Because I’m sure that no matter what I do or how many times I go broke I’ll always be the crook. If no ones caught a clue yet, Im not one to give up easy.

Someone is genuinely helping me now. Not like the type of help like that Tin Tiger was trying to do. Where he tried to scam me out of my business & put his greedy needs ahead of all the past customers. All the while playing to the public like he wanted to help. Then posting lies about me & passing himself off as an innocent victim in the deal.

This new guy isn’t expecting anything in return in fact I received a tool today I have been needing for 6yrs now that is the one most important tool that will lower costs greatly on many parts of the build. It will cut times down on the most tedious parts by at least 10x.

He has helped me with not only that tool but he has many other sets of tooling on the way that will make all tube sizes possible in both Stainless & mild steal. What this means is that after I receive the other tooling & with the new tool I just received I will be able to make every part except for one on all the headers. I wont need to spend $20-$40 on a part I cant make many times over for just one set of headers. Unlike those big Co’s I’ll pass the savings through to the customers later in forms of other products.

Although he could help with the tooling he is not helping with any materials. That will need to solely come from sales. That’s the news I have & I will post again when I have more.

I have had more than my share of guys that weld. I went through 4-5 guys in Ca before getting the last guy. He turned out to be a great guy & offered a reasonable price. Too bad he’s so far away now.

As for the welders here, I thought that the flakey overpriced welders was just a Ca thing. I guess not since I have had the same results here.

I have got fed up with this cr@p & I have refined my welding skills enough to help in this area. I have also purchased a Tig welder that is working on portions of the job & is overall improving the headers. Although I still use the mig on some areas, its an evolving process that can only get better with the new tooling that at some point the Tig may take over in all areas.

Now please back to the worthless bashing because I may not post again…

PS. Sirrotica,
Your missing something important. Although even a blind, one armed monkey with his hand tied behind his back can build a 4-tube header because the tubes usually don’t interfere as much with each other. The tri-y drivers side layout for the tubing would complicate things way to much without a jig. That header has to be welded in only one way or you screw yourself & cant reach other welds. The pass side is far easier but still has welding issues. Lets be clear on this I’m not calling you a monkey. All Im saying is it will take that same monkey to either have site or the extra arm OK. There a difference in 4-tube & tri-y’s that even the header Co’s will say it takes a few extra steps in many areas.

Bonne Joe,
Tigs great in some areas but the way the Y’s are is still best welded with the mig because of some gaps. With my new tooling I hope to minimize that issue especially around the ports

[floffy]

Ron,

Nice to see you back.
You probably read about welding the headers ourself; WOuld that make things easier for you and would that be possible without a jig??
If not and i order a set what would be the time frame you can deliver? round port sec. gen 2 1/8 prim.

Daan

[roadrage david]

I have been in contact with Ron as wel. spoke with him around two weeks ago. have no doubt he wil diliver. Mine is the one that wil see Dyno tests!!. i belive i get the 2 1/8 primaries as wel (round port headers). we wil test it on a 700 hp engine. at 7000 rpm. this wil be the real test, as TRI-Y headers are known to run out at around 6000/6200 rpm, i belive that Rons 2 1/8 primary headers Tri-Y disign wil be able to Diliver at 7000 rpm!!. and i need that ground clearense above anyting els.

[texasdave]

Ron,

I'm glad to hear the update.

Its good to hear that the tide has turned, to some small degree, for you.

I hope this will be one of many updates as things get smoother for you, and I really hope they do.

TD

[arrowem]

updates are calming.....

[big_oil]

Has anyone received their headers from orders placed the 2nd half of last year? Has Ron caught up to that point of the orders? My order was placed early November.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by TUNNEL PORT

PS. Sirrotica,
Your missing something important. Although even a blind, one armed monkey with his hand tied behind his back can build a 4-tube header because the tubes usually don’t interfere as much with each other. The tri-y drivers side layout for the tubing would complicate things way to much without a jig. That header has to be welded in only one way or you screw yourself & cant reach other welds. The pass side is far easier but still has welding issues. Lets be clear on this I’m not calling you a monkey. All Im saying is it will take that same monkey to either have site or the extra arm OK. There a difference in 4-tube & tri-y’s that even the header Co’s will say it takes a few extra steps in many areas.

So your telling me the header is built in a jig and it can only be built that way? it can't be tacked together in sections and then assembled on the car and finish welded, I wonder how the prototype header was built then, or was the jig built before the header? Which came first, the jig or the prototype original header?

Ron, I wasn't born yesterday and the headers I built (admittedly they weren't tri Y style) were built on the car and welded up off the car. I have built enough custom exhaust to realize that welding the tubes up off the car can present it's own set of problems, but I have never used a jig and have successfully completed the ones I have started. I only have 2 arms am not blind either, and as far as I know I have no ancestry to apes, and with my obvious handicaps I still got them done. It is just is a question of fortitude and ingenuity. "Can't, never got a damn thing done" quote courtesy of my deceased father.

Building headers isn't easy no matter if your building 4 tube or tri Ys for the first time (hence the reason people make big bucks for custom headers), however it isn't rocket science and no voodoo or magic is involved either. I have never seen a jig or a mold built before the original pattern was made for any part.

[Larry Navarro]

Which came first, the jig or the prototype original header?

Well in Ron's case......the headers were first,......in the form of original H-O Racing tri-y's, mine.
The jig was built using those headers.
Hope that clears things up a bit.