[The Boss]

Originally Posted by joshDub

If you are really concerned about efficiency, reliability, and price why not go with a Toyota?

2007 Tacoma crew cab, 6' bed, 111334 miles, 1 wheel bearing, 2 sets of brake pads, 2 sets of tires, 18mpg around town, 23 unloaded highway, 13.5 mpg as shown. Hard to beat but not really a heavy duty truck.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by sleepy

Are they THOSE GM employees???

If you would take the time to actually read and comprehend things on this board, you'd know how foolish you make yourself look with this post.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by joshDub

If you are really concerned about efficiency, reliability, and price why not go with a Toyota?

Well, they aren't the most fuel efficient.

Reliable? Well the engine might still be good...

[hurryinhoosier62]

I've been following this post for awhile. Some of you REALLY need to do some research!!
I'm a retired ASE Master Engine Machinist. I've machined THOUSANDS of engine blocks and components. Here is an emuteable fact: THEY ALL BUILD JUNK!! GM has some of the worst machine work I've ever seen. Cranks that are .025 out of stroke from the factory(Brad, you left that one out!!) aren't a good thing. Big Hammer, do YOU know what the BIGGEST problem with the Duramax is? They spit out head gasket with annoying regularity. Ford had many years of headaches with the modular V-8(Romeos and Windsors). Personally, I would NEVER own one. Oil drain back problems(Fords have always had this problem), weak connecting rods(powdered metal) and one of the weirdest torque patterns on earth are just some of its weaknesses, yet you never see a cracked block. So, you're going to bore a 283 to 350 cylinder size? You ARE going to sonic test, aren't you? I've never seen a 50yr old engine block that STILL had cylinder wall thickness any where near their original thickness. They (the cylinder walls) are reduced by errosion and corrosion. I grow weary of people "badmouthing" Ford for the spark plug bosses on the 4.6/5.4 without mentioning the headbolts and mains on the GM 4100 series engines. It's called galvanic corrosion. It happens ANY TIME you mix dissimiliar metals. A dime's worth of anti-seize can eliminate the problem. I put 147,000
miles on an Escort with zero problems related to spark plugs because I ALWAYS used anti-seize. MY experience tells me that MOST of the problems associated with any automobile are owner induced. ANY QUESTIONS???

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by sleepy

I went to public school with union teachers, What do you expect?

I'm making a grand assumption here - that you went to school in West Central Wisconsin.

I know for a fact that the quality education made available in that area is very good - having lived there for over 20 years. If you happen to have gone to school in New Richmond - I know many alumni from their that did manage to learn.

The fact that you may have decided to sleep through class is not a reflection of the teachers, but a reflection on who you are and have become.

I attended public school also (as I'm sure the vast majority of the people on this board did), and don't blame my teachers for my problems.

If you went to public school somewhere else, feel free to correct me and let us know where you actually did sleep through class...

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by joshDub

If you are really concerned about efficiency, reliability, and price why not go with a Toyota?

because they have some of the worst mileage out of all the new full size trucks.

[sleepy]

No, I went to Stillwater. And a fine example of a union teacher was my 9th grade math teacher. The first day told the class, If you want a passing grade just show up every day.
Now there ARE good teachers out their BUT with the UNION protecting the worthless teachers the good ones are out numbered and can't do anything about it.
The Union doesn't care about quality workers, They care about how many members are paying their dues.
BTW. The last time the district claimed they needed more money or they had to lay off a bunch of teachers and make little Johny walk 5 miles, barefoot,in the snow, up hill(both ways) I asked the treasurer for a look at their expenditures, He said no but also admitted they have NEVER had LESS than 3% of the budget left over at the end of the year AND had 28 MILLION in the bank (emergency reserve). and they(school board) have JUST got back from their annual Hawaii retreat.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by sleepy

No, I went to Stillwater. And a fine example of a union teacher was my 9th grade math teacher. The first day told the class, If you want a passing grade just show up every day.
Now their ARE good teachers out their BUT with the UNION protecting the worthless teachers the good ones are out numbered and can't do anything about it.
The Union doesn't care about quality workers, They care about how many members are paying their dues.BTW. The last time the district claimed they needed more money or they had to lay off a bunch of teachers and make little Johny walk 5 miles, barefoot,in the snow, up hill(both ways) I asked the treasurer for a look at their expenditures, He said no but also admitted they have NEVER had LESS than 3% of the budget left over at the end of the year AND had 28 MILLION in the bank (emergency reserve). and they(school board) have JUST got back from their annual Hawaii retreat.

spot-the-****-on!



btw you should have used the word "there" instead of "their"....

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

I've been following this post for awhile. Some of you REALLY need to do some research!!
I'm a retired ASE Master Engine Machinist. I've machined THOUSANDS of engine blocks and components. Here is an emuteable fact: THEY ALL BUILD JUNK!! GM has some of the worst machine work I've ever seen. Cranks that are .025 out of stroke from the factory(Brad, you left that one out!!) aren't a good thing. Big Hammer, do YOU know what the BIGGEST problem with the Duramax is? They spit out head gasket with annoying regularity. Ford had many years of headaches with the modular V-8(Romeos and Windsors). Personally, I would NEVER own one. Oil drain back problems(Fords have always had this problem), weak connecting rods(powdered metal) and one of the weirdest torque patterns on earth are just some of its weaknesses, yet you never see a cracked block. So, you're going to bore a 283 to 350 cylinder size? You ARE going to sonic test, aren't you? I've never seen a 50yr old engine block that STILL had cylinder wall thickness any where near their original thickness. They (the cylinder walls) are reduced by errosion and corrosion. I grow weary of people "badmouthing" Ford for the spark plug bosses on the 4.6/5.4 without mentioning the headbolts and mains on the GM 4100 series engines. It's called galvanic corrosion. It happens ANY TIME you mix dissimiliar metals. A dime's worth of anti-seize can eliminate the problem. I put 147,000
miles on an Escort with zero problems related to spark plugs because I ALWAYS used anti-seize. MY experience tells me that MOST of the problems associated with any automobile are owner induced. ANY QUESTIONS???

I don't understand why with modern tooling, modern gaskets, modern quality control, and computer programs that can simulate durability why we still have engines with these kind of troubles.

Look at some of the most reliable engines : Ford 300, Chrysler 225 Slant Six, Buick Nailhead, etc. all designed before we had that technology and none really had any weaknesses. Just good strong designs.

Worst engine thread : http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=681616

What make is the most mentioned on here ?

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

I don't understand why with modern tooling, modern gaskets, modern quality control, and computer programs that can simulate durability why we still have engines with these kind of troubles.

Look at some of the most reliable engines : Ford 300, Chrysler 225 Slant Six, Buick Nailhead, etc. all designed before we had that technology and none really had any weaknesses. Just good strong designs.

Worst engine thread : http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=681616

What make is the most mentioned on here ?

inline sixes by nature are just stronger engines.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Brad,

Technology doesn't matter. Humans are STILL involved. Humans are prone to error. Take the Duramax. Fantastic block and bottom end. They also have aluminum heads.
The heads are not the problem, other than the normal aluminum head flaws (i.e. work hardening). The problem is the engineers didn't require an MLS head gasket. As a result,
the owners that try to use "performance" products (i.e. tuners, bigger injectors, bigger turbos) blow head gaskets out because the standard head gaskets can't handle the higher cylinder pressures that "performance" products produce. Additionally, I've seen some Duramax blocks with deck surfaces so rough you could catch a fingernail in it. As a rule, you machine an iron block using aluminum head MUCH smoother than if you were using iron heads (Ra vs. Rz).

[hurryinhoosier62]

big hammer,

BRAVO SIERRA!!!! I've seen inline sixes(gasoine) explode with loads that a V8 wouldn't even breathe hard with. Inline sixes have far more torsional vibration and are far more
sensitive to balance issues due to the length of their cranks.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

big hammer,

BRAVO SIERRA!!!! I've seen inline sixes(gasoine) explode with loads that a V8 wouldn't even breathe hard with. Inline sixes have far more torsional vibration and are far more
sensitive to balance issues due to the length of their cranks.

we've all seen lots of things. inline sixes by nature are a lower revving, higher low end torque producing engine. they also have more main bearings per cylinder. i would much rather pull with a ford 300 than a 302. a ford 300 may run like ****, but it will run like **** forever!

[hurryinhoosier62]

No arguement there; the 300 is a much better towing engine than the 302. However, inline sixes will "shake" themselves apart unless you are VERY aware of engine balancing when overhauling one. YOU are going to teach me about engines?? Show me your ASE card and I'll show you mine!! What creates superior torque is a LONGER stroke and longer rods.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Brad,

Technology doesn't matter. Humans are STILL involved. Humans are prone to error. Take the Duramax. Fantastic block and bottom end. They also have aluminum heads.
The heads are not the problem, other than the normal aluminum head flaws (i.e. work hardening). The problem is the engineers didn't require an MLS head gasket. As a result,
the owners that try to use "performance" products (i.e. tuners, bigger injectors, bigger turbos) blow head gaskets out because the standard head gaskets can't handle the higher cylinder pressures that "performance" products produce. Additionally, I've seen some Duramax blocks with deck surfaces so rough you could catch a fingernail in it. As a rule, you machine an iron block using aluminum head MUCH smoother than if you were using iron heads (Ra vs. Rz).

Hadnt heard that one. Had an 05 GMC 2500hd with the programmer, etcc and never had an issue and i beat on it pretty good on the weekends (outlook monitor was showing boost at around 28 psi on extreme mode). I do know that the Ford with the 6.0 diesel has bad head gasket issues. Guess I was lucky

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

No arguement there; the 300 is a much better towing engine than the 302. However, inline sixes will "shake" themselves apart unless you are VERY aware of engine balancing when overhauling one. YOU are going to teach me about engines?? Show me your ASE card and I'll show you mine!! What creates superior torque is a LONGER stroke and longer rods.

Where did anyone say that? So you are saying because you are ASE certified you know more than people that arent? There are MANY engine builders on this site that might question that.

[hurryinhoosier62]

bigunde,

The statement you highlighted was directed toward big hammer, not you. He was somewhat condescendingly trying to explain to lil' ol' me WHY inline engine produce more torque. I spent MANY YEARS tearing down, machining and assembling engines and
their components. I will defer to P-dude, Ace, Ken Crocie, Mr. P-body, Cliff, and the various other builders on this site ANYTIME, but having a long-on-horn neophyte trying to instruct me on engine theory WILL NOT be tolerated. An ASE certification is evidence that you know the BASICS of the automotive maintenance. An ASE Master certification (which I hold) is evidence that means you've spent enough time in the trenches to have learn a few things.BTW.....you were lucky!! I stopped by a buddy of mine's shop while I was back home. He had a set of '05 Duramax heads that were leaking coolant like a sieve. Upon inspection, it was discovered that BOTH head gaskets had failed. Additionally, the right head was severely cracked between the intake and exhuast valve in #6 cylinder. The vehicle which these heads were removed from had a BullyDog stage 3 tuner, uprated injectors and an MUCH larger turbo. The deck surfaces resembled a relief map of Colorado when a straight edge was put on them.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Brad,

Technology doesn't matter. Humans are STILL involved. Humans are prone to error. Take the Duramax. Fantastic block and bottom end. They also have aluminum heads.
The heads are not the problem, other than the normal aluminum head flaws (i.e. work hardening). The problem is the engineers didn't require an MLS head gasket. As a result,
the owners that try to use "performance" products (i.e. tuners, bigger injectors, bigger turbos) blow head gaskets out because the standard head gaskets can't handle the higher cylinder pressures that "performance" products produce. Additionally, I've seen some Duramax blocks with deck surfaces so rough you could catch a fingernail in it. As a rule, you machine an iron block using aluminum head MUCH smoother than if you were using iron heads (Ra vs. Rz).

Don't know; seems to me there's alot more troubled engines. Then again, they keep bringing out new engines with a much shorter shelf life vs. making the same engine for decades.
IMO aluminum heads on a diesel are less than ideal. If they were all that big rigs would use 'em. Maybe that's why I prefer the older IDI & Powerstroke engines. Some of the 6.0 and 6.4s worked with aftermarket studs are showing tremendous power when the weak spots are addressed.

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

bigunde,

The statement you highlighted was directed toward big hammer, not you. He was somewhat condescendingly trying to explain to lil' ol' me WHY inline engine produce more torque. I spent MANY YEARS tearing down, machining and assembling engines and
their components. I will defer to P-dude, Ace, Ken Crocie, Mr. P-body, Cliff, and the various other builders on this site ANYTIME, but having a long-on-horn neophyte trying to instruct me on engine theory WILL NOT be tolerated. An ASE certification is evidence that you know the BASICS of the automotive maintenance. An ASE Master certification (which I hold) is evidence that means you've spent enough time in the trenches to have learn a few things.BTW.....you were lucky!! I stopped by a buddy of mine's shop while I was back home. He had a set of '05 Duramax heads that were leaking coolant like a sieve. Upon inspection, it was discovered that BOTH head gaskets had failed. Additionally, the right head was severely cracked between the intake and exhuast valve in #6 cylinder. The vehicle which these heads were removed from had a BullyDog stage 3 tuner, uprated injectors and an MUCH larger turbo. The deck surfaces resembled a relief map of Colorado when a straight edge was put on them.

Inliners making more torque is BS ! Detroit 6-71 and 6V-71 post the same damn numbers. The aluminum heads on the Duramaxx I predicted would be an issue years ago; just seems to me aluminum is not up to the task. Long rods make more torque, yea, but they'll do it further up in the RPM range; that's why some of 'em use shorter rods for now torque !

[hurryinhoosier62]

Brad,

Precisely!!! Build a GM I-6 292, then build a long stroke,long rod 292 from a 265/283. The V8 292 will have two more pistons to produce both horsepower and torque. The N14 and 901 Cummins is the same. Both engine are rated at 300hp, but have similiar torque numbers. The N14 just happens to be more reliable and can pass modern emission specs.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Brad,

Precisely!!! Build a GM I-6 292, then build a long stroke,long rod 292 from a 265/283. The V8 292 will have two more pistons to produce both horsepower and torque. The N14 and 901 Cummins is the same. Both engine are rated at 300hp, but have similiar torque numbers. The N14 just happens to be more reliable and can pass modern emission specs.

Never heard of a 901 cummins; you mean the V903 ? They had a 927 that was a long stroke 855 I believe -

292s ? The 283 would be a 3" stroke though vs the 4 1/8" stroke

I've had this debate before: take an inline 300 Ford (or whatever) and made it a 60 deg or 90 deg V engine; how can laying a cylinder/piston on its side produce less torque ?