[Dave Polichena]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

From what I read, he farms out his work... so is it accurate to call them "Gaby E heads"??? .

Not even close, I have been to his shop more than once to see what goes on there as far as cylinder head work being done.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Brian,
My reply was based on the quote above from Mike.

Tuning and increasing HP after dyno testing does happen. But if the motor was re-dynoed it would produce higher HP.

Stan

true I suppose

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Dyno corrected HP = 998

Run at track shows 1030 HP (DA = - 1325 feet)

Got it.

Stan

Sorry but i don't think you do. There are several factors that effect the cars performance, more than just da. 3% is as close as you'll see car/dyno/a year of tuning, heck radials effect it.

[Jim Robertson]

John,
Great question and thanks for asking. Yes we believe the numbers from this pump. Here's why:
Dyno was installed in the early 1990's by an old hot rodder at his private shop. Owner ran his personal engines on it occasionally and for its first 20 years it was rented by the day to Samford Racing Heads and Eds Machine only...at least until Jan 2014 when Samford leased it outright. 15-20 engines average per year have been run on it. It isa 901B and has the "871" pump which has a 2000HP rating. I watched the initial calibration by Superflow techs and calibration has been checked regularly since. Shortly after John's engine we tried to run a 598 BBC (1300HP) and the torque spikes (as seen on John's pulls) were much worse prompting the owner to "work on it" in his spare time. After about 15 months and about $10K in parts he gave up trying to get it work. Many back and forths with Superflow techs. A few more months later we convinced him to lease it to us if we could get it working. So far so good...we learned alot about the detailed workings from this teardown/rebuild. This one now has many new parts and a fresh calibration. We hung 173lbs and the console readout showed 544.5. Formula from service manual: ((Weight in lbs * 3) +25.5lbs). Curve is still a bit "bumpy" for my taste but still after 20 years we trust the numbers (the area under the curve.) A few years back my iron dport 469 made 806HP on this pump and the car ran 143mph at 3280lbs in my 2nd gen bird-brick at Norwalk last year. High or low at least this one produces a repeatable number we can count on to measure and improve our engine program.
IMHO A properly maintained/calibrated/repeatable dyno is a necessary tool to have in one's tool arsenal.
Best of luck with your builds...we are watching with great interest.

Have weight, Will hang :-)

[EPC_Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Lil,

Let's compare HP/cu.in.

My 511" motor with run-of-the-mill wideports, 1.6 rockers on 110 fuel made 920 HP. That's 1.80 HP/cu.in.

Your 541" motor with Gaby heads, 1.8+ rockers and I'm guessing at least C16 or Q16 fuel made 965 HP. That's 1.78 HP/cu. in.

So tell me again how I can't make power? And how am I a "hater" for recounting my experience? It appears the CV-1 crowd has taken the high road here, while the usual loud mouths spew their BS.

According to your comrade Gach, even if my car goes faster with CV-1 heads, it still doesn't prove anything. So if head flow is meaningless, dyno results are meaningless and ET doesn't prove anything, what else is there?

Dick Fulton

P.S. I LOVE lining up next to a guy like you who runs his mouth. Lock it in, sucka !!

Dick, What fuel do you use when you spray your car?

[Jim Robertson]

Did not run this one at 600 rpm/sec. Three reasons:
1. Most of our clientele's engines tend to be accelerating fairly slowly at the top of high gear;
2. Difference between the resulting HP when pulled at 300RPM/sec versus 600RPM/sec is less than 1 percent increase. Performed this exact back to back test on a 457HP 5600RPM street 455 just a few days ago and the average increase was 3.42HP from 4300-5600.
3. When that beauty is in full song, it sounds COOL...and we get to enjoy the symphony for a few more seconds

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Sorry but i don't think you do. There are several factors that effect the cars performance, more than just da. 3% is as close as you'll see car/dyno/a year of tuning, heck radials effect it.

Mike,
There are items which effect et / mph like DA which also reflect a change in HP. There are other items which effect et / mph like traction which reflect NO change in HP.

Stan

[S/st 54]

Thanks for the info Jim! That was good stuff.
My question for those who know is: is the 300rpm per sec
Or the 600rpm per sec and predetermined setting on every dyno and when the motor accelerates that's when the force put on the brake is measured(torque) OR is it the brake is set at Whatever amount of resistance and the torque the engine puts out determines xxxrpm per second????

If that made any sense....is that a valid question?

[johnta1]

From Larry Meaux's forum:

the SF-901 Software + Electronics control the Servo Valve on the Water Brake's discharge
so that in turn sets the amount of Load on the Engine and the Rate of Load -vs- RPM if you choose an acceleration test.

Its a computer controlled acceleration rate .... the Dyno tries to maintain that RPM/SEC Rate as best it can ,
it does vary a bit, but overall 600 RPM/SEC comes out around 600 RPM/SEC on average .

it takes about 1 second to turn the Test Rate knob to your choice
its that easy on a SF Dyno

Anytime you accelerate a mass it take force
the amount of force would be relative to where the mass is distributed from the axis or centerline of rotation ( Polar Moment of Inertia = PMI or POI )
Any rotational mass thats accelerating will loose more and more HP the faster you try to accelerate it .... and that includes any objects in the Absorber or Dyno that are
geared to or accelerating with the Engine

600 HP = So lets say you Dyno your Engine at zero acceleration test rate ( Steady-State )
585 HP = 300 rpm/sec acceleration test rate
570 HP = 600 rpm/sec acceleration test rate

so i ask you.... what HP would you input into a computer program to simulate how quick you would run in 1/4 mile ?

so to be fair and accurate , you would need to input a second value to represent the HP loss to Dyno test rotational inertia

so in a 1/4 Mile DragRace Simulation Program you might input 570 HP along with 600 rpm/sec so it becomes 600 HP @ steady state
or you input 585 HP at 300 rpm/sec and it becomes 600 HP @ steady state in the program
or you input 600 HP steady-state , and it remains 600 HP in the Program
so that all 3 combinations end up or equal to 600 HP in the program

then the computer program now knows the engine puts out 600 HP @ steady-state
now when the RaceCar launches off the starting line and revs + gear changes , etc,
the rpm/sec rate is vastly different from the Dyno rate
so down the dragstrip or track, the engine typically in first gear could be as high as 5000 rpm/sec in 1st gear on a 500 cid ProStocker
the computer program has to keep track of all component rotational inertia losses every .001 second or whatever you use as your time increment or time step .


_________________
Meaux Racing Heads
MaxRace Software
ET_Analyst ( DragStrip Simulation Software )
PipeMax ( Engine Simulation Software )
http://www.maxracesoftware.com

[Stan Weiss]

Jason,
I have talked with Mike Laws (BLP) about their Dyno and software a number of times over many years and feel this is the best way to dyno test. It is an inertia based dyno that uses a time based / variable RPM acceleration rate. See attached dyno sheet from one of their Carb Shoot-outs.

Think about it. In any trans gear there is a variable rpm acceleration rate. The max acceleration will be at Max torque and you can see that by looking at the rpm/s column.

Stan

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Jason,
I have talked with Mike Laws (BLP) about their Dyno and software a number of times over many years and feel this is the best way to dyno test. It is an inertia based dyno that uses a time based / variable RPM acceleration rate. See attached dyno sheet from one of their Carb Shoot-outs.

Think about it. In any trans gear there is a variable rpm acceleration rate. The max acceleration will be at Max torque and you can see that by looking at the rpm/s column.

Stan

Based on your last statement explain why a car with a torque convertor set at your max torque -- say 5800 is slower than the same car with a convertor that stalls 6900 and the engine has usable HP at that range and above -- the one set at max torque DOES NOT accelerate quicker. ask me how I know!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Based on your last statement explain why a car with a torque convertor set at your max torque -- say 5800 is slower than the same car with a convertor that stalls 6900 and the engine has usable HP at that range and above -- the one set at max torque DOES NOT accelerate quicker. ask me how I know!

Curt,
I always like to look a manual trans / clutch cars because the torque convertor adds an extra degree of complexity. While the max acceleration in any gear is at max torque that is only really important for a drag racer in first gear (road racing is a different story). Once you get passed max acceleration in first gear the question is how many RPM to turn first gear until shifting. The starting point (track test is the final answer) is when wheel torque / HP in that gear drops below the wheel torque / HP at the RPM you drop to in the next gear. These are fixed percentages / RPM with a manual trans / clutch. With an automatic the torque convertor /stall speed acts as a modifier to that RPM. Which is why the added complexity from a torque convertor.

Stan

[KO]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Based on your last statement explain why a car with a torque convertor set at your max torque -- say 5800 is slower than the same car with a convertor that stalls 6900 and the engine has usable HP at that range and above -- the one set at max torque DOES NOT accelerate quicker. ask me how I know!

Torque converters do not have a fixed stall. When the input shaft is fixed and the pump is spinning and when both are spinning change the actual point of "lock up". Ideally you would want a converter to stall at the max RPM on the starting line but that would be called a clutch. The converter "fall back" on gear changes is important also as a slight RPM flare actually increases acceleration.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Mike,
There are items which effect et / mph like DA which also reflect a change in HP. There are other items which effect et / mph like traction which reflect NO change in HP.

Stan

Are you being serious? You cant really think i don't know about da. In a car spinning, it will show less hp due to less et and mph.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by EPC_Motorsports

Dick, What fuel do you use when you spray your car?

I heard you use Gray Goose!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Are you being serious? You cant really think i don't know about da. In a car spinning, it will show less hp due to less et and mph.

Stan

[Badbird69]

Dick, What fuel do you use when you spray your car?


Hi Jack,

We run two separate fuel systems in the car. We run 110 in the main fuel cell for the motor. 110 is available at the pump at several local gas stations that cater to the circle track guys. Also most race tracks we go to sell 110 on site. So it's nice to have a motor that is happy on 110.

The smaller fuel cell on the left is for the nitrous system. We use C16 for that. So depending on how often we get out, a five gallon can of C16 can last a whole season.

Have had no detonation issues with this set-up. The rod bearings looked so nice after the first season, we put them back in for the second season. Seems to be working okay.

Dick

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Dick, What fuel do you use when you spray your car?


Hi Jack,

We run two separate fuel systems in the car. We run 110 in the main fuel cell for the motor. 110 is available at the pump at several local gas stations that cater to the circle track guys. Also most race tracks we go to sell 110 on site. So it's nice to have a motor that is happy on 110.

The smaller fuel cell on the left is for the nitrous system. We use C16 for that. So depending on how often we get out, a five gallon can of C16 can last a whole season.

Have had no detonation issues with this set-up. The rod bearings looked so nice after the first season, we put them back in for the second season. Seems to be working okay.

Dick

All I see is 90-100 lbs that can come out of that car FAST!

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by john marcella

All I see is 90-100 lbs that can come out of that car FAST!

He is light enough already

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Dick, What fuel do you use when you spray your car?


Hi Jack,

We run two separate fuel systems in the car. We run 110 in the main fuel cell for the motor. 110 is available at the pump at several local gas stations that cater to the circle track guys. Also most race tracks we go to sell 110 on site. So it's nice to have a motor that is happy on 110.

The smaller fuel cell on the left is for the nitrous system. We use C16 for that. So depending on how often we get out, a five gallon can of C16 can last a whole season.

Have had no detonation issues with this set-up. The rod bearings looked so nice after the first season, we put them back in for the second season. Seems to be working okay.

Dick

very nice set up Mr. Fulton, and your car is Bad ass.
can you post couple more pictures of your car, side, front, engine and interior..will love to see them...thanks

[p4msi1]

Originally Posted by john marcella

To whom are you posting this towards, and why are you posting it?

John, your original question was people posting their 1000+ HP ehead dyno sheets, I get that and I hope that there will be many. As I also wish there will be a couple of CV-1's lurking out there. I mentioned that I have Tigers but its certainly no 1000 HP but if I wanted, it could be as they are proven. Having 1000 HP is a milestone for anyone in the pontiac community, but in the end, I line up against a ford or chevy that is already making the power and is truly OUR competition outside of this forum. After we get alot of 1000 HP ehead motors running around in this forum and feeling cocky, gunna poke our heads up from the ground just to find the chevies making 1150 HP. Just a thought...


Steve