[MikeNoun]

John, I think I'm missing something here. Did someone have 07-493 listed as Jim Causley Pontiac?

07-493 is Stan Long Pontiac, which fits in the alphabetical assignment of dealer codes (1967).

07-100 is Jim Causley Inc, 38111 Gratiot Ave, Mt Clemens, MI (1981)

Mike

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

John, I think I'm missing something here. Did someone have 07-493 listed as Jim Causley Pontiac?

07-493 is Stan Long Pontiac, which fits in the alphabetical assignment of dealer codes (1967).

07-100 is Jim Causley Inc, 38111 Gratiot Ave, Mt Clemens, MI (1981)

Mike

I agree with Mike Noun (as my father-in law bought a couple of cars from Jim Causley, ((when he was located on Mack Avenue in Detroit (on the East Side). Today they are on Gratiot Avenue right before "Downtown" Mt Clemens as you are going North on Gratiot Avenue.

Jim Causley made the move out of Detroit well before Olds and Pontiac went under.

Tom V.

[johnta1]

Did someone have 07-493 listed as Jim Causley Pontiac?

Mike, what do you show for Priehs Sales Pontiac?
Or John Rummel Pontiac?

Need to do some more corrections probably.

Also do you have Causley as dealer number 099?
This had the address: 17677 Mack Ave Detroit

What was the actual address of the place the pics were taken at?



Still after all these years, no full dealership codes.

[MikeNoun]

John, I'm sorry, I don't have anything for Priehs Pontiac.

I update my spreadsheet almost daily as I find new invoices from various sources. I also add new codes, correct addresses, etc. from invoices and build sheets that people send me to create a window sticker. I've added a few hundred, but there's still a lot of gaps. Sadly, PHS won't even share dealer names anymore. So if you paid $65 for a crappy, barely readable copy of a 1967 Billing History Card, they want $50 to disclose the name of a dealership. For someone who dumpster-dove those invoices decades ago, it's made them millions of dollars, and they have Pontiac fans over a barrel.

Jim Causley had two codes, the 07-099 was 17677 Mack Ave in Detroit, and 07-100 was 38111 Gratiot Ave in Mt. Clemens.

I've run across dozens and dozens of examples where a dealer had two codes, numerically next to each other, usually with the same address. When the addresses are different, most likely the dealership moved at some point. When I update my spreadsheet, I always include the year and model of the car where I obtained the info. That helps to determine when the move occurred.

But many examples show a dealer with two codes, one having the street address, the other with a P.O. Box. This may have been something to do with billing. Perhaps they used one address for financed cars, the other for purchased cars, I'm not sure.

There's also examples of a dealer address being shared by multiple dealers, and I believe those addresses are for a Zone lot.

Mike

[John V.]

Mike, I crossed up 07-493 using John W's (johnta1) decoder.

And didn't go back to see you had already id'd that one as Stan Long.

John, I see you added the Stan Long identification. Wondering if you shouldn't delete Jim Causley for that code?

I also see that you might have pulled that ID from Sean Mattingly's site, he also has it with the same misspelling as Jim Clausey (sic).

John, I went thru your notes about Priehs also. This is where time frames become important. I seem to recall learning on the PY Forum that PMD may have issued new Dealer Codes at some point. In that case, 07-493 for Jim Causley may be completely unrelated to the Dealer Code list that existed in the '60s and '70s. Something to consider.

Mike, I believe one explanation for a Dealer having two codes is that some Dealers had an inventory lot location separate from the Dealer's Sales location.

I believe sometimes those dealers shipped cars to the inventory lot, other times to the Sales location.

For purposes of Billing, the Sales address was used.

On those occasions when they wanted a car delivered to the inventory lot, the "SHIP TO" would identify the alternate Dealer Code. On the '69 Invoices you will see a section labeled "SHIPPED TO - SAME (UNLESS OTHERWISE INDICATED)".

Zone Stock builds, common in '69, would show a Zone location "dealer" code.

But a Dealer ordered build might also show a different code for the Dealer being invoiced for the car if he wanted it delivered to his remote inventory location.

On the '65 BHC's there are boxes for the "CHARGE TO" Dealer code and the "SHIP TO" Dealer code for the same purpose. If the same, the "SHIP TO" Box is blank.

Never seen a '65 BHC with a "SHIP TO" code. But I assume it is possible and likely some examples exist.

Mike, it is good that you are tracking the time frames for the Dealer addresses.

It seems many dealers moved out of the downtowns in the '60s and '70s. And many suburban locations changed too as biz grew. Hard to track when they moved.

I'm wondering if Jim Causley, Inc. was assigned BOTH 07-099 and 07-100 BEFORE moving out of Detroit? Could have been true if he had a separate inventory lot location.

Reason I'm wondering this, I believe most times when a Dealer relocated, he kept his Dealer Code. I know I have seen examples where that was true.

Unless he operated for a time at both the old and new locations, it doesn't seem logical to me that he would have been assigned a new code just because he changed addresses.

It seems to me, he might have had both Dealer codes for the Detroit operation, then when he moved, might have only retained the one, figuring he no longer needed a separate inventory lot location.

Just thinking out loud I guess that the "original" address for 07-100 may have been in Detroit, connected to his Mack Ave. business.

John, I found some info about Priehs Motor Sales Co.

It was formed by Frank Priehs and his brother Louis in 1920. They bought the property at 103 Macomb St. in Mt. Clemens from their father, a livery stable located there.

Originally had Cadillac, Buick, and LaSalle franchises. In 1925, Frank bought out his brother. In 1928, he bought a large vacant lot next door and used it for a used car lot (presumably accounting for the address as 95-103 Macomb St.). "His dealership lasted for many years, finally being sold and divided" following the death of Frank Priehs in 1963. No mention of when they got the Pontiac dealership. Or when it got sold.

zimtok, Zone 19 is the Memphis, TN zone. But that Zone covered a lot of area. Do you have any idea where it was sold or any clues? Mike might have it on his list but if not, would help if you knew what city or anything else. What car is this for, model year?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by John V.

John, I see you added the Stan Long identification. Wondering if you shouldn't delete Jim Causley for that code?

John, I went thru your notes about Priehs also. This is where time frames become important. I seem to recall learning on the PY Forum that PMD may have issued new Dealer Codes at some point. In that case, 07-493 for Jim Causley may be completely unrelated to the Dealer Code list that existed in the '60s and '70s. Something to consider.

Mike, it is good that you are tracking the time frames for the Dealer addresses.

It seems many dealers moved out of the downtowns in the '60s and '70s. And many suburban locations changed too as biz grew. Hard to track when they moved.

I'm wondering if Jim Causley, Inc. was assigned BOTH 07-099 and 07-100 BEFORE moving out of Detroit? Could have been true if he had a separate inventory lot location.

Reason I'm wondering this, I believe most times when a Dealer relocated, he kept his Dealer Code. I know I have seen examples where that was true.

Unless he operated for a time at both the old and new locations, it doesn't seem logical to me that he would have been assigned a new code just because he changed addresses.

It seems to me, he might have had both Dealer codes for the Detroit operation, then when he moved, might have only retained the one, figuring he no longer needed a separate inventory lot location.

Just thinking out loud I guess that the "original" address for 07-100 may have been in Detroit, connected to his Mack Ave. business.

I few comments: Jim Causley was a dedicated PONTIAC DEALERSHIP on Mack Avenue in Detroit. His Code 07-099 would have been the Pontiac code.

When things started getting bad on the east side of Detroit (former location of 95% of the Police and Fireman homes in Detroit when they were required to live in Detroit), Jim Causley purchased the Olds/Buick/GMC dealership on Gratiot Avenue. When Olds was dropped as a Brand, the Gratiot location picked up some Pontiac Business therefore the 07-100 number was probably added at that time for that location. (To sell Pontiac Vehicles there and at the 07-099 location in Detroit.) The dealerships were far enough apart to justify a separate dealer code for each location. When times got really tough in Detroit, Causley hung on selling Pontiacs and stayed at the Detroit location until Pontiac went down the tube. At that point, the 07-100 code would have been dropped but the 07-493 (assumed to be for the Buick/GMC Truck side of the business) would show up on the list for Jim Causley.

Tom V.

[MikeNoun]

John, I too had thought that a dealer having two codes may mean they had a storage lot.

Also interesting is how many invoices I've seen where one invoice uses a P.O. Box for an address, another (from the same dealer) used the dealer's full address. I haven't investigated the reasoning behind that. My first thought was that dealers had two codes for accounting purposes.

Zimtok, I'm sorry, I don't have that dealer code.

Earlier question about the Pontiac Retail Store location, the address was 65 University Drive, Pontiac MI.

Mike