[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm sorry....didn't mean it like it sounds....I was just helping you get your car in the 3's. Lots of people talking about the Eheads not being that good....but no one is stepping to the plate.

No one has ever said there (e head) wasnt a OK head, they are what they are and no more! Ever other head out there flows better then the e head. If you know what your doing numbers make a difference. Like I said before Pro Mods don't run e-heads for a reason. Just saying!


GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

No one has ever said there (e head) wasnt a OK head, they are what they are and no more! Ever other head out there flows better then the e head. If you know what your doing numbers make a difference. Like I said before Pro Mods don't run e-heads for a reason. Just saying!


GTO George

"They" are the most powerful dyno proven Pontiac head on the planet. I believe they are third and fourth on the fastest Pontiac 1/4 mile list and one of the two E-headed cars is an 1/8 mile car.The other two vehicles on the list don't use commercially available heads. So would it be plausible, with all the better choices of heads out there nobody wants to go faster than they're going?? Or are you saying none of these guys know what they're doing? Why wouldn't some of these guys bolt on the "better" heads and go run deep into the five's?

George, if you changed fuel in your car and cranked up the boost how fast would you run?

[GTOGEORGE]

Dyno numbers are only numbers. I've rarely seen dyno numbers equivalent to the same numbers on the drag strip. The e-heads have decades behind them and because of that there are far more racers with e-heads on there cars. As for one off billet heads except for the Visner all the other heads can be bought in cast form. Speed cost money, most Pontiac racers are cheap, only few are willing to set it out (money & time), the ones that do are rewarded. Butler , KRE, Cooper, Welter, Justin, etc. all have a lot in common.....not enough time or money.......no MEGA company's here! You wanna go fast how much time & money you got......it's pretty simple. E head can't compare to the Warp 6. Visners CV head, DCI RA5 head are two heads with more time on them WILL easily surpass the e heads.
My engine runs on alcohol.....what ifs are silly! I'll run any car with any head, anytime....same boost, same weight....same day....same strip with my HP heads. I'll be at Norwalk.


GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

As for one off billet heads except for the Visner all the other heads can be bought in cast form.


GTO George

The Boss Bird doesn't run readily available cylinder heads. Warp 6 heads availability is sketchy. The Eheads are readily available and depending where they're purchased from qualify for free shipping... "what if's" are silly...but you keep talking about how one day all these other heads are easily going to out power the Eheads.

Btw... I doubt I'll be at Norwalk

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

The Boss Bird doesn't run readily available cylinder heads. Warp 6 heads availability is sketchy. The Eheads are readily available and depending where they're purchased from qualify for free shipping... "what if's" are silly...but you keep talking about how one day all these other heads are easily going to out power the Eheads.

Btw... I doubt I'll be at Norwalk

Any head beside e-heads are sketchy because it would cost MORE money to you guys, hell you guys are still bitching over the cost of an aftermarket block. If you take all the e-heads out there and switch them with HP's or any other of the
mentioned heads it would make more power! Case closed!


GTO George

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Any head beside e-heads are sketchy because it would cost MORE money to you guys, hell you guys are still bitching over the cost of an aftermarket block. If you take all the e-heads out there and switch them with HP's or any other of the
mentioned heads it would make more power! Case closed!


GTO George

George what do you mean by "you guys"?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

If you take all the e-heads out there and switch them with HP's or any other of the
mentioned heads it would make more power! Case closed!


GTO George

I thought you said "what ifs" are silly... why do you continue to be silly?

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

"They" are the most powerful dyno proven Pontiac head on the planet. I believe they are third and fourth on the fastest Pontiac 1/4 mile list and one of the two E-headed cars is an 1/8 mile car.The other two vehicles on the list don't use commercially available heads. So would it be plausible, with all the better choices of heads out there nobody wants to go faster than they're going?? Or are you saying none of these guys know what they're doing? Why wouldn't some of these guys bolt on the "better" heads and go run deep into the five's?

George, if you changed fuel in your car and cranked up the boost how fast would you run?

A little more detail on the Fastest list:
#1 Warp 6 - limited availability
#2 our billet RA5 - not available, built for ruggedness, not ultimate flow
#3 Tiger heads
#4 e-heads
#5 (I don't recall)
#6 E-heads
#7 Tiger
#8 Warp 6
#9 Warp 6?
#10 Warp 6

So 4 different heads represented....a nice variety in my book.

Eric

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Elarson

A little more detail on the Fastest list:
#1 Warp 6 - limited availability
#2 our billet RA5 - not available, built for ruggedness, not ultimate flow
#3 Tiger heads
#4 e-heads
#5 (I don't recall)
#6 E-heads
#7 Tiger
#8 Warp 6
#9 Warp 6?
#10 Warp 6

So 4 different heads represented....a nice variety in my book.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I agree! It's to bad none of the heads on that list are readily available except for the Edelbrocks.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Elarson

A little more detail on the Fastest list:
#1 Warp 6 - limited availability
#2 our billet RA5 - not available, built for ruggedness, not ultimate flow
#3 Tiger heads
#4 e-heads
#5 (I don't recall)
#6 E-heads
#7 Tiger
#8 Warp 6
#9 Warp 6?
#10 Warp 6

So 4 different heads represented....a nice variety in my book.

Eric

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Thanks Eric, I agree! It's to bad none of the heads on that list are readily available except for the Edelbrocks.

Paul,
Way are these not readily available?

Stan

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
Way are these not readily available?

Stan

Hi Stan, I'm not sure why, but they've been out of stock for a long time.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Hi Stan, I'm not sure why, but they've been out of stock for a long time.

Paul,
Thanks did not know that.

Just a WAG, but could be like the CV1's were sold out for sometime before the new CV1.1 came out that the Tigers are sold out of this casting run and are waiting on a new improved casting.

Stan

[Elarson]

We used Tigers on the Grocery Getter and had no trouble getting them.

We had the first gen Tigers ( lots better now) and they were worth an instant 150 hp gain over ported e-heads (which are further developed now too).

Eric

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Elarson

We used Tigers on the Grocery Getter and had no trouble getting them.

We had the first gen Tigers ( lots better now) and they were worth an instant 150 hp gain over ported e-heads (which are further developed now too).

Eric

Tigers are a very good head....hopefully they're available soon.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

George, if you changed fuel in your car and cranked up the boost how fast would you run?

With my 330 e heads and gas I ran 8.70's (in the heat).....last year (in the heat) I ran 8 teens with HP's.


GTO George

[v869tr6]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

With my 330 e heads and gas I ran 8.70's (in the heat).....last year (in the heat) I ran 8 teens with HP's.




GTO George

Same boost numbers or same pulleys, same cam ?

[mgarblik]

From every objective viewpoint, the e-heads shouldn't be worth a damn, yet they do perform amazingly well when lots and lots of time and effort is put into them. Unfortunately, what you are left with is a flimsy and delicate head, once you port the heck out of them, move the water holes, grind and fill, put good seats in them, open the push-rod area. It's just one heck of a lot of work. But for many years, it is all we had other than Wenzlers. The Tigers start out so much better it isn't even a comparison. But many serious players, like the Crow, Rodney Butler and many, many others had already invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on the E-heads and didn't want to jump ship to another head. I understand this. The cost can be huge to make the change because it's not just the heads. Lifters, pushrods, rocker gear, valves, springs all have to be changed. If you use good parts it can easily cost 15K to change all that stuff if you include the cost of the new heads, porting, flow development, different intake. It's allot more than just the head castings. Edelbrock had a HUGE advantage by being the FIRST and ONLY choice for over a decade. In my opinion, this is why the Pro-Port head was a failure. A much better head, but way too late coming out and lots and lots of good choices now. Nobody left in the hobby with money and interest in really developing them.

[v869tr6]

This thread is about the Crow, the Crow is a TURBO car that runs 40+ psi of boost, some turbo cars are starting to run 80 psi, so no real port work needed. Good valves and springs, top hat washers and tubes in E heads to keep the studs tight and a good size cam. That and a bottom end that stays together will tear up most cars, LOL

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by v869tr6

This thread is about the Crow, the Crow is a TURBO car that runs 40+ psi of boost, some turbo cars are starting to run 80 psi, so no real port work needed. Good valves and springs, top hat washers and tubes in E heads to keep the studs tight and a good size cam. That and a bottom end that stays together will tear up most cars, LOL

X2. Say you have the typical 330-340 cfm E- head out there available from a lot of people.

13.5 psi of boost will make 850 hp on a very basic 455 type engine. Luhn Performance proved that deal.

Many Years ago there was a guy named Doug Hess who ran 8.40s with his heavy Camero with a 350 cid engine. Article by Woody Hatten in Super Stock magazine.
So Doug put a single dominator on a new car (Monza body - same engine) and TURNED UP THE BOOST and ran well into the high 7s. HE WAS RUNNING TWIN TURBOS SO THAT WAS EASY TO DO. many years later, as you said v869tr6, that still is the way to make big hp, and not so much on the cid and head flow side of the deal. Only reason why you need the head flow is if the class restricts boost and engine displacement.

Tom V.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

From every objective viewpoint, the e-heads shouldn't be worth a damn, yet they do perform amazingly well when lots and lots of time and effort is put into them. Unfortunately, what you are left with is a flimsy and delicate head, once you port the heck out of them, move the water holes, grind and fill, put good seats in them, open the push-rod area. It's just one heck of a lot of work. But for many years, it is all we had other than Wenzlers. The Tigers start out so much better it isn't even a comparison. But many serious players, like the Crow, Rodney Butler and many, many others had already invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on the E-heads and didn't want to jump ship to another head. I understand this. The cost can be huge to make the change because it's not just the heads. Lifters, pushrods, rocker gear, valves, springs all have to be changed. If you use good parts it can easily cost 15K to change all that stuff if you include the cost of the new heads, porting, flow development, different intake. It's allot more than just the head castings. Edelbrock had a HUGE advantage by being the FIRST and ONLY choice for over a decade. In my opinion, this is why the Pro-Port head was a failure. A much better head, but way too late coming out and lots and lots of good choices now. Nobody left in the hobby with money and interest in really developing them.

Chiefs heads are very basic...no moved pushrods, have standard rockers, standard port...not much money in that deal and they seem to have held up well...