[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

This coming from a guy who has never had a set of aluminum heads in his car? Btw, I'm not taking a shot at you, just pointing out most Pontiac racers won't spend the needed money to go to a high level. Some have complained if a standard Pontiac valve cover won't fit, it's not a true Pontiac. Spreading the bore space to gain a few more cubic inches still won't put Pontiacs in the same league as other brands. Everything on an engine like that will be a custom piece. Go read Langers response again to the issues Pontiac has to compete with other brands.

NHRA SS/AM runs at 8.50 lbs per CI. Assuming Langers engine is 565ci would put him at 4800lbs. I believe the record is around 7.95. Need I say more?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin,
SS/AM is a different animal than what Jason was talking about needing more cis for. What is the deck height on the short block you have / had? How low could it be milled? Would it take a small main (2.5" or less) journal crank?

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Calvin,
SS/AM is a different animal than what Jason was talking about needing more cis for. What is the deck height on the short block you have / had? How low could it be milled? Would it take a small main (2.5" or less) journal crank?

I've had two short decks, the first was a 9.750" aluminum IA-II block, standard mains, oversize cam and lifter bores in the OEM location. I sold this block when I could get the iron block.

The second is the iron IA-II meausres 9.500" with standard mains. I'm being told it will go to 9.250", I've yet to get into this project and it sits in the corner.

I know of at least 1- KRE AL block that was made with smaller mains, standard height block.

If we use 500ci (AKA NHRA PS) as a target for CI, decks sub 9.500" can be of benefit, but also comes with other issues when looking at the block. It's not a purpose built block for a 500CFM cylinder head. Mains, lifter bore and cam location are not optimized.

IMO, the best approach for building a motor like Jason wants is to build the motor with a much higher HP target and just dont' RPM the motor as high. Someone wants to make 1000 HP @ 7000 RPM, how much power would that engine need to make at peak? We are bore size limited, that make us valve size limted, cubic inch limited and so on. BBC have the ability in block and head design to accomplish those goals, the approach in using a Pontiac has to change. More compression, more cylinder head, more cam, intake and so on. Running the engine 700-1000 RPM below peak will improve the life of the engine.

Can you run numbers on a 500ci engine making 1000HP @7000 RPM?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I've had two short decks, the first was a 9.750" aluminum IA-II block, standard mains, oversize cam and lifter bores in the OEM location. I sold this block when I could get the iron block.

The second is the iron IA-II meausres 9.500" with standard mains. I'm being told it will go to 9.250", I've yet to get into this project and it sits in the corner.

I know of at least 1- KRE AL block that was made with smaller mains, standard height block.

If we use 500ci (AKA NHRA PS) as a target for CI, decks sub 9.500" can be of benefit, but also comes with other issues when looking at the block. It's not a purpose built block for a 500CFM cylinder head. Mains, lifter bore and cam location are not optimized.

IMO, the best approach for building a motor like Jason wants is to build the motor with a much higher HP target and just dont' RPM the motor as high. Someone wants to make 1000 HP @ 7000 RPM, how much power would that engine need to make at peak? We are bore size limited, that make us valve size limted, cubic inch limited and so on. BBC have the ability in block and head design to accomplish those goals, the approach in using a Pontiac has to change. More compression, more cylinder head, more cam, intake and so on. Running the engine 700-1000 RPM below peak will improve the life of the engine.

Can you run numbers on a 500ci engine making 1000HP @7000 RPM?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin,
I am not sure what numbers you want.

500 ci - 1000 HP @ 7000 RPM - .443 BSFC - 13.0:1 A/F would need 124.15% VE.

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Calvin,
I am not sure what numbers you want.

500 ci - 1000 HP @ 7000 RPM - .443 BSFC - 13.0:1 A/F would need 124.15% VE.

Stan

These numbers are a little more optimistic.

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I've had two short decks, the first was a 9.750" aluminum IA-II block, standard mains, oversize cam and lifter bores in the OEM location. I sold this block when I could get the iron block.

The second is the iron IA-II meausres 9.500" with standard mains. I'm being told it will go to 9.250", I've yet to get into this project and it sits in the corner.

I know of at least 1- KRE AL block that was made with smaller mains, standard height block.

If we use 500ci (AKA NHRA PS) as a target for CI, decks sub 9.500" can be of benefit, but also comes with other issues when looking at the block. It's not a purpose built block for a 500CFM cylinder head. Mains, lifter bore and cam location are not optimized.

IMO, the best approach for building a motor like Jason wants is to build the motor with a much higher HP target and just dont' RPM the motor as high. Someone wants to make 1000 HP @ 7000 RPM, how much power would that engine need to make at peak? We are bore size limited, that make us valve size limted, cubic inch limited and so on. BBC have the ability in block and head design to accomplish those goals, the approach in using a Pontiac has to change. More compression, more cylinder head, more cam, intake and so on. Running the engine 700-1000 RPM below peak will improve the life of the engine.

Can you run numbers on a 500ci engine making 1000HP @7000 RPM?

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin,
Didn't someone at one time sell a spacer kit to use a crank with a reduced main journal size?

Stan

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Calvin,
Didn't someone at one time sell a spacer kit to use a crank with a reduced main journal size?

Stan

I don't see the main size as being the issue, there are ways around that and most high end cranks are custom units from Crower or Bryant,

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Calvin,
Didn't someone at one time sell a spacer kit to use a crank with a reduced main journal size?

Stan

Pontiac Dude

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by GTO Dan

Pontiac Dude

That mod allowed you to use a 455 crank in a 400 block, turn crank to 3.000" mains, use an Olds bearing and add shims to take clearance.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420