[chiefbigb]

I would say the same thing in person. I promise that. Your resima in the engine building world is blank yet you speak as some sort of expert. You have done nothing but pound keys on a board. I get so tired of reading your bull crap. You will never make enough power to damage a aftermarket block. Hell to really learn anything about them you would have to build one and run it which you have not. Go back to the kiddy pool

[mgarblik]

As Scott Roberts said, 2.750 is common in current top fuel applications, 10,000 HP+ and 10,000 RPM's. But that's not the entire story of course. These main sizes are housed in a structural cage, a deep skirt, cross bolted arrangement. Most all of these blocks have 9/16" main bolts, very long and deep into the block. The cross bolts are 1/2" minimum. Some have a 5/8", 9/16" combination of fasteners set deep into the structure of the block. The goal is to provide a straight tunnel for the crankshaft to turn in under load. No way that's going to happen with the heaviest load being imparted to an unsupported section of the block just hanging out in the oil pan. We do the best we can with what we have. I will never be convinced it's the best for maximum HP. I love Pontiac's but they were never designed for 3000+ HP. None of these stock block designs were. That's why clean sheet of paper billet blocks exist. It's nostalgia, pure and simple.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

As Scott Roberts said, 2.750 is common in current top fuel applications, 10,000 HP+ and 10,000 RPM's. But that's not the entire story of course. These main sizes are housed in a structural cage, a deep skirt, cross bolted arrangement. Most all of these blocks have 9/16" main bolts, very long and deep into the block. The cross bolts are 1/2" minimum. Some have a 5/8", 9/16" combination of fasteners set deep into the structure of the block. The goal is to provide a straight tunnel for the crankshaft to turn in under load. No way that's going to happen with the heaviest load being imparted to an unsupported section of the block just hanging out in the oil pan. We do the best we can with what we have. I will never be convinced it's the best for maximum HP. I love Pontiac's but they were never designed for 3000+ HP. None of these stock block designs were. That's why clean sheet of paper billet blocks exist. It's nostalgia, pure and simple.

Are you guys so concerned about main bearing/cap walk that it has effect how hard you push the tune? If you guys had a skirted block, you think you'd be running a higher % of nitro or more blower overdrive?

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Are you guys so concerned about main bearing/cap walk that it has effect how hard you push the tune? If you guys had a skirted block, you think you'd be running a higher % of nitro or more blower overdrive?

The short answer is: not yet. A tuning mistake with nitro can be pretty catastrophic so we're going up in baby steps. Too rich and cylinders drop. Too lean and the entire engine grenades.

We're at 90% now (with minor tweaks plus or minus for weather). I don't see that changing. Further improvements will involve more fuel volume and more blower overdrive. Unfortunately, changing blower OD can affect cylinder distribution so it's not just a simple step up the ladder.

I can partially answer Scott's question. Mains are in the range of .006-.007. .005 clearance wouldn't flow enough oil. We've heard of big show fuel cars running upwards of .010 on mains. Mike will have to weigh in on rod clearance.

The solid IA block is amazing but it will have a limit somewhere that we haven't found yet. A skirted cross-bolted block would be stronger but the reality is that the solid IA block does what we need at half the price of billet.

Eric

[John Langer]

Visner has a design for a billet skirted Pontiac block. 2 are scheduled to be completed in September. I have no clue who they are for but did get a quote on one and it comes with a billet oil pan. We are talking serious plumber money, serious... he also has a design for an unskilled version, that one, that isn't for the average enthusiast either. At that point, you just spend the extra 2k for the skirted one.

[Elarson]

Yes..... not sure of the point of getting a billet block carved up without getting skirted mains.

Eric

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Visner has a design for a billet skirted Pontiac block. 2 are scheduled to be completed in September. I have no clue who they are for but did get a quote on one and it comes with a billet oil pan. We are talking serious plumber money, serious... he also has a design for an unskilled version, that one, that isn't for the average enthusiast either. At that point, you just spend the extra 2k for the skirted one.

I would guess for a Pontiac ( low volume) skirted block you're in the 8-10k range..

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

I would guess for a Pontiac ( low volume) skirted block you're in the 8-10k range..

You are not even in the ball park. I said serious plumber money. High volume non skirted sbc and bbc are in the 8k range. It is close to 17 for a skirted Pontiac block w oil pan. Rumor has it you will be into it for close to 25 for a set of heads, intake, valve covers and shaft bars. That's a steal compared to my cv-juans.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

I would say the same thing in person. I promise that. Your resima in the engine building world is blank yet you speak as some sort of expert. You have done nothing but pound keys on a board. I get so tired of reading your bull crap. You will never make enough power to damage a aftermarket block. Hell to really learn anything about them you would have to build one and run it which you have not. Go back to the kiddy pool

So, chiefofculturalappropriation, what you want me to do is stick my tail between my legs so you can do you keyboard wannabe bully thing. (BTW, am am a Indian, belong to a tribe and would never use "chief" in my screen name)
I am not speaking as any sort of expert. Just because you say I am means nothing. Simply not true.
I have no plans on even trying to reach the capability of a IA2. It would be catastrophic for what I do.
But, what you want is to bully or shame me into not even talking about the highest levels of Pontiac Power because YOU do not want me too.
You are just one phony D bag punk. I do not care how much land you have or what tractor outfit you are a tech at. A D bag is a D bag and you sir are a giant one.
Have you seen what happened this last page ?. I brought up skirted blocks. Now we just got some real info on the subject and what it takes to make big power Pontiacs live. From some of the most accomplished Pontiac racers there have ever been. I have a ton of respect for them. You, not so much.
See, what this site, this section is about is learning something and sharing information. Got it done. Goal accomplished.
None of those guys have ever given me anything close to your BS. Says a lot about them. And a lot about YOU. You are always going to have to reading my "bull crap". Get used to it. Or just be a whiny little b!tch, your choice.

One more thing, we can always do the poster of me over your bed, on the wife's side. Bet she is a tired of you as I am. Now go crawl back under your rock, I am done with you. People are trying to share information here.

[chiefbigb]

Yeah man your awesome. Let's see. Weekend before last I was at our local pow wow and helped a vet put a alternator on his wife's crv which is a pain. Yesterday I did a group ride that raised 17k for a 7 year old boy with heart disease. You know so much

[chiefbigb]

I guess some of my problem with your statements stem from the end of your last post. You are trying to extract information and have none to share. High end programs that have evolved over time from where you currently are know what is needed to move forward. It's easy to look at a blown alcohol or fuel engine design and say well that's what we need and think your some genius. Today's cnc equipment can do about anything the programmer can dream up but at the end there is a price to pay. The people that can afford them will get them. Not because someone said it's the way to go it will be because they with hands on experiance learned they have hit a wall due to an inferior design.

[Chris Petersen]

There has been a main cap support, I think it was made by Bill I beleave, and installed on a KRE block at a shop a few miles from me. A member here, but dont think he posts here anymore.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

There has been a main cap support, I think it was made by Bill I beleave, and installed on a KRE block at a shop a few miles from me. A member here, but dont think he posts here anymore.

WOW....thats a nice piece


GTO George

[Hooter]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

There has been a main cap support, I think it was made by Bill I beleave, and installed on a KRE block at a shop a few miles from me. A member here, but dont think he posts here anymore.

That's Rob Senkyr's.

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by Hooter

That's Rob Senkyr's.

Yes it is, he lives down the road from me.

[Scott Stoneburg]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

There has been a main cap support, I think it was made by Bill I beleave, and installed on a KRE block at a shop a few miles from me. A member here, but dont think he posts here anymore.

So would he make more of those or was it a 1 off situation?

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

So would he make more of those or was it a 1 off situation?

That I have no idea. I would assume it was made on a cnc machine, would have to ask Bill if he was the one to make it.

[Stan Weiss]

Even sitting in the CHEAP seats it is easy to see you are just post junk to up your post count.

For how many years have all we have heard is you are going to? Yet you never do. Look at the ECM. How many times in the past couple of years have they posted up new PB's?

If how fast you run matters as to what someone can say here, then you need to STFU and listen to the ECM.

Waiting breathlessly to see what dribble you post up to reply.

Stan

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Even sitting in the CHEAP seats it is easy to see you are just post junk to up your post count.

For how many years have all we have heard is you are going to? Yet you never do. Look at the ECM. How many times in the past couple of years have they posted up new PB's?

If how fast you run matters as to what someone can say here, then you need to STFU and listen to the ECM.

Waiting breathlessly to see what dribble you post up to reply.

Stan

Actually Dragncar made a comment that I thought was funny, so i made a small comment on it.
Why do you care how many years......besides I didnt know there was a time frame?
Actually i was encouraged by what I ran last weekend 5.16 was pretty good for the being turned down and yes I backed it down because i made changes to the suspension and I didn't know what it was going to do....just trying to play it safe! The weather and track was crap also. Normally i run about 2.9 seconds more in the 1/4 mile then an 1/8 mile hit, so that 5.16 would have been an 8.0 run........my cars pretty consistent that way! ill see next weekend.
I have no idea what the Muppets have to do with anything.....just saying.


GTO George