[gtofreek]

I showed Joe's video to another machinist who owned his own machine shop for over 25 years. I suggested nothing, just asked him to watch and see what he thinks the noise might be. As soon as it started knosking, the first words out of his mouth is "that's spark knock". I personally have never heard spark knock at an idle so I asked him to clarify. He said the engine is running too slow to deal with the amount of timing it has and it's causing a spark knock. Spark knock is NOT a machanical knock[which would explain why I found nothing in the engine that would cause a mechanical knock]. It's an ignition knock. This has been suggested many times in this thread but seems to fall on deaf ears.

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

You need to get the idle RPM up and not down at 400-500 RPM. That's just ridiculously slow for an engine with this much cam in it. I only hear the knock at this really low idle. Pick the idle up, set the timing as I wrote on the tape, and disconnect the vacuum advance for the distributor and plug the vacuum port on the carb., then see if the noise is still present. I bet it won't be there.

Tighten up that alternator belt also. It's way too loose.

As far as the windage tray spacing is concerned, I said it before and I'll say it again, the witness marks Joe and his friends saw are the witness marks I made when I first turned the engine over by hand. That is why I shimmed the tray in the first place. The rod bolts were just barely touching which is why the marks were so minimal. THE ROD BOLTS WERE NOT TOUCHING THE WINDAGE TRAY ONCE JOE GOT THE ENGINE! Which is why the noise was still present after they reshimmed it. Don't see why I should have to pay $950 for something that wasn't a problem in the first place. They saw the marks and just assumed they were fresh and causing the noise. I couldn't see the marks clear enough in the pic I was sent, but after seeing the marks in person, they were the same marks I remember making when I first discovered the bolts touching it.

I feel once the timing and idle speed have been dealt with, the knocking noise will be non-existent.

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I showed Joe's video to another machinist who owned his own machine shop for over 25 years. I suggested nothing, just asked him to watch and see what he thinks the noise might be. As soon as it started knosking, the first words out of his mouth is "that's spark knock". I personally have never heard spark knock at an idle so I asked him to clarify. He said the engine is running too slow to deal with the amount of timing it has and it's causing a spark knock. Spark knock is NOT a machanical knock[which would explain why I found nothing in the engine that would cause a mechanical knock]. It's an ignition knock. This has been suggested many times in this thread but seems to fall on deaf ears.

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

You need to get the idle RPM up and not down at 400-500 RPM. That's just ridiculously slow for an engine with this much cam in it. I only hear the knock at this really low idle. Pick the idle up, set the timing as I wrote on the tape, and disconnect the vacuum advance for the distributor and plug the vacuum port on the carb., then see if the noise is still present. I bet it won't be there.

Tighten up that alternator belt also. It's way too loose.


I feel once the timing and idle speed have been dealt with, the knocking noise will be non-existent.

Do this!!! Just validated the timing is not set on this motor correctly.

[Va68goat]

He must have been typing as I was but I had a feeling that question would be answered.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I showed Joe's video to another machinist who owned his own machine shop for over 25 years. I suggested nothing, just asked him to watch and see what he thinks the noise might be. As soon as it started knosking, the first words out of his mouth is "that's spark knock". I personally have never heard spark knock at an idle so I asked him to clarify. He said the engine is running too slow to deal with the amount of timing it has and it's causing a spark knock. Spark knock is NOT a machanical knock[which would explain why I found nothing in the engine that would cause a mechanical knock]. It's an ignition knock. This has been suggested many times in this thread but seems to fall on deaf ears.

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

You need to get the idle RPM up and not down at 400-500 RPM. That's just ridiculously slow for an engine with this much cam in it. I only hear the knock at this really low idle. Pick the idle up, set the timing as I wrote on the tape, and disconnect the vacuum advance for the distributor and plug the vacuum port on the carb., then see if the noise is still present. I bet it won't be there.

Tighten up that alternator belt also. It's way too loose.

As far as the windage tray spacing is concerned, I said it before and I'll say it again, the witness marks Joe and his friends saw are the witness marks I made when I first turned the engine over by hand. That is why I shimmed the tray in the first place. The rod bolts were just barely touching which is why the marks were so minimal. THE ROD BOLTS WERE NOT TOUCHING THE WINDAGE TRAY ONCE JOE GOT THE ENGINE! Which is why the noise was still present after they reshimmed it. Don't see why I should have to pay $950 for something that wasn't a problem in the first place. They saw the marks and just assumed they were fresh and causing the noise. I couldn't see the marks clear enough in the pic I was sent, but after seeing the marks in person, they were the same marks I remember making when I first discovered the bolts touching it.

I feel once the timing and idle speed have been dealt with, the knocking noise will be non-existent.

Bingo!

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

I pulled the distributor when I got the engine back from dyno. I checked the busing which was fine and I restabbed the distributor BUT had no way of setting the timing. That is why I wrote on a piece of tape on the carb plate that the timing needs to be reset. It was only close enough to get the engine to start and run.

Next time you do that..... scribe a mark on the distributor base and block. Also note where the rotor button is pointed. Then you can stick the distributor back in "exactly" where it was. No need to reset timing unless you change gasket thickness.

I suspect you knew that but others may not
Clay

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Next time you do that..... scribe a mark on the distributor base and block. Also note where the rotor button is pointed. Then you can stick the distributor back in "exactly" where it was. No need to reset timing unless you change gasket thickness.

I suspect you knew that but others may not
Clay

I marked it all with a sharpy. It can still be a couple degrees off though which could put initial over 20BTDC very easily. Then with vacuum advance on top of it, it could be 30 something degrees very easily.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

Oh...it doesn't matter to YOU. You're not involved in this. You have chosen to involve yourself as a cheerleader. It certainly matters to me. It doesn't matter to me if you are wonderng why we're still talking about it. In order for guys to make a fair assessment, everything now has to be disclosed. You can just wave off the history and problems with this motor because I'm really not paying attention to much of what you're saying because you're defending...not contributing.

[Formulajones]

If you think it's not contributing then you're definitely not listening.

You don't seem to realize what you're doing isn't helping. You're worried about a distributor bushing from 6 months ago that's already been fixed, instead of dealing with the current issue. Get the timing set!! Lets keep moving forward instead of making 10 more pages of dwelling on the past. All of us will benefit from that.

[GTO JONES]

Did you get to check the timing?

[Va68goat]

64speed,
Good advice. I just want this motor running right. I've reached out to Paul multiple times and he went ghost. As you can see, he doesn't even comment on this thread unless it's an easy answer to someone's question that diverts the attention away from him. That's ok though, hopefully the timing issue will get addressed today and the knocking noise will be gone. I have plenty of time to address any other concerns.

[Va68goat]

Here are the two videos from yesterday. I didn't want to initially post this because we still have more to do. I don't think anyone can do an honest assessment without knowing where we're at. So here are the videos. We are going to try another distributor. Maybe this will make sense to some of you guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoG-DsNJOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUnO9Fwj0qQ

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Here are the two videos from yesterday. I didn't want to initially post this because we still have more to do. I don't think anyone can do an honest assessment without knowing where we're at. So here are the videos. We are going to try another distributor. Maybe this will make sense to some of you guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoG-DsNJOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUnO9Fwj0qQ

Definitely not right but almost sounds like a piston slap.

[mgarblik]

I listened to the videos of the engine and I do hear some rhythmic noise. If God forbid, I was stuck working on a situation like this, here is how I would proceed. 1. Go ahead and swap the distributor for a known good unit since this was a known problem area. If that does not work. 2. Remove all the belts and run without any of that stuff turning. If that doesn't work. 3. Remove the fuel pump and run without it. Use a block-off plate or even duct tape. Only needs to run for 20 seconds. if that doesn't work. 4. Remove torque converter bolts and push out of way. Run engine. If still the EXACT same noise, put everything back together. 5. Run engine again and remove one spark plug wire at a time to try and isolate the noise to 1 cylinder. If that doesn't work. 6. I might wave the white flag at that point. But I am not easily defeated. This is obviously a tough one.

[Va68goat]

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

I'm saying it's not likely, and there is no way for anyone to know any different one way or the other. It's not fact, it's just speculation. Doesn't matter at this point anyway because that was fixed and done, so there is no need to ponder it. Don't know why we are even still talking about it. That's water under the bridge.

What we are trying to help you with now is the current noise, and I've told you what I believe that sounds like and Paul has told you the timing needs set and why, so lets just get through that first and see what happens.

[AG]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

I'm no expert, but I've built over 30 motors including my race motor and perform all associated tuning. I build rear ends and transmissions also and I know how to use a timing light. I am offering comments based on experience, not from a place of wanting to come across as a person who is knowledgeable.

[Va68goat]

Paul E,
I won't even address that comment.

[Scott Roberts]

Is this your first complete engine rebuild and install... serious question.

[Va68goat]

We've been down the ignition issue for 2 years and the guys that are helping me are pretty confident that it's not an ignition issue. Paul inspected the distributor and made a few videos that I posted.

As for the missing, we're still checking some things but that knocking noise is not going to go away. We're very confident that it's a mechanical issue. I hope we're wrong.

[JSPONT]

How old is the gas in the car? you said this project has been a while. Fresh gas I hope. For now I would let it idle 1000 rpm or more.
Hwy455 knows what to do, wait for him do not run it anymore until a timing light is on it.