[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Next time you do that..... scribe a mark on the distributor base and block. Also note where the rotor button is pointed. Then you can stick the distributor back in "exactly" where it was. No need to reset timing unless you change gasket thickness.

I suspect you knew that but others may not
Clay

I marked it all with a sharpy. It can still be a couple degrees off though which could put initial over 20BTDC very easily. Then with vacuum advance on top of it, it could be 30 something degrees very easily.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Sun Tuned

Did the worn bushing distributor get replaced by a whole different one? Or just a different housing?

I didn't see the answer to this if it was mentioned earlier.

I know the initial timing has been set. But if the original shaft that had the worn bushing was reused, isthere any possibility one of the or more than one of the reluctor teeth have been dinged and firing at different time than an equal 45 degrees for each of the 8?

Does this make sense?

I've seen it before.

Shaft looked beautiful except for some light polishing from the bushing. No scratches or galling in it at all. Reluctor looked good except for being shined up where it was rubbing.

[Va68goat]

torqhead,

We understood that the timing was set which is why it was idling so rough. We will turn the distributor before we start it. We'll check the firing order as well. I need to buy a good timing light. If you can recommend one and send me a message that would be great. I don't want this to become a timing light thread..hahahaha.


"QUICK-SILVER",
Good idea. I'm new to this but that makes sense to me.

Sun Tuned,
From what Paul told me, just the bushing was replaced and the old distributor was used. Paul had me buy another polymer gear to replace the one that was on it previously. This may be better answered by Paul but I don't know how much he is going to respond because he isn't addressing anything that I post...so who knows! I'm assuming he would respond to this specific question because it's an easy answer.

[Va68goat]

JSPONT,

The gas is only a few months old. New gas tank as well. The car wont be started until Hwy455 comes over. I'm not touching this car until someone with some knowledge and experience gets their hands on it!

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

torqhead,
Sun Tuned,
From what Paul told me, just the bushing was replaced and the old distributor was used. Paul had me buy another polymer gear to replace the one that was on it previously. This may be better answered by Paul but I don't know how much he is going to respond because he isn't addressing anything that I post...so who knows! I'm assuming he would respond to this specific question because it's an easy answer.

He addressed that particular issue here:

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Shaft looked beautiful except for some light polishing from the bushing. No scratches or galling in it at all. Reluctor looked good except for being shined up where it was rubbing.

[Va68goat]

He must have been typing as I was but I had a feeling that question would be answered.

[promptcritical]

ah...

[Sun Tuned]

No worries, I missed a whole page apparently.

Agree with the altitude tuning .

Also if timing wasn't set, and needs to be, then I definitely agree with getting this done pronto.

Never watched the video. Just wanted to make sure none of the reluctor teeth were out of whack.

I've spoken with Paul, at length several times. He knows what he's doing, without question and until you get the timing set and locked down I would not spend another moment quarterbacking it until this happens.

All good.

[Va68goat]

Sun Tuned,

No doubt Paul knows what he's doing.

[krisr]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

krisr,

We did not change the timing at all. I was told to leave the timing as it was shipped and that's what we did. The distributor is an MSD Ready to run. I do not have a box.

Formulajones,

If the timing was set at the dyno and was not adjusted, was not bumped in any way, why wouldn't the motor just crank right up? It just ran on the dyno not even a month ago.

Ok if it's an RTR distributor, polarity shouldn't be a problem.

Doesn't matter if you think the timing wasn't bumped in transit etc, step number 1 (i.e. standard practice) is to make sure the distributor is timed to the crankshaft BEFORE ANYTHING as very small changes at the distributor can be very big at the crankshaft. Check it with a light on #1 and if it's out, loosen the distributor and turn it until it's around 15-18*BTDC, lock the distributor down.

You'd be stunned at the number of EFI motors I've fixed because the timing has never been verified to what the ECU is commanding, carb/distributor is no different and spark timing is VERY important.

[Va68goat]

krisr,

Thanks Krisr. I'm pretty sure we're going to get this done tomorrow. I'll post a video!

[Va68goat]

So since I shared the information about the motor blowing up on the dyno, I've had a lot of guys sending me messages and calling me with questions and thoughts. I guess some guys don't feel comfortable putting stuff out there because there is so much controversy and finger pointing going on. Here is one point that was brought up several times.

Multiple guys told me that they believe that the distributor bushing was most likely damaged when the oil pickup tube fell into the pan and the motor blew up. Their reasoning for the damaged distributor bushing is, the motor lost oil pressure, starved the motor of oil and could have easily damaged the bushing, the camshaft and components directly connected to it. I don't know if any of this is possible? Anybody have any thoughts?

Here is an email from someone didn't want to post himself but said it was ok for me to cut and paste. Any thoughts?

This is important information for anyone who is interested in diagnosing the mysterious knocking noise. I feel that this information must be considered before attempting to correctly diagnose.

What is Known:

1. The tapping noise is not consistent. It is erratic. (Reference the slow motion video previously posted)
2. Every component and outside surface of the motor and transmission was checked with a mechanic stethoscope.
3. Only one specific point was confirmed to have contact with a pathway to the source
4. The noise was only picked up at the base of the distributor. (Nowhere else)

What does this information tell you ?

This means that ether the distributor is malfunctioning or a component that has a direct pathway to the distributor is malfunctioning. When the motor was sent back this last time Paul said that he found play in the bushings located on the bottom of the distributor shaft. Paul said he sent the distributor back to the manufacture and had it repaired. So if this is correct then it would not be the distributor.

There are only two other contact pathways left for the noise to travel to the base of the distributor. 1) The camshaft and components directly connected to it. 2) The oil pump or components directly connected to it.

I hope this information helps and good luck,

[Formulajones]

First lets look at the #1 you posted.

That erratic and non consistent noise was found by Paul the first time. That was the distributor bushing, and the reluctor wheel was cocked so far sideways it was contacting the pickup intermittently creating that clicking sound off and on. We determined this a long while back in this thread.

The noise you have now is not the same intermittent noise. What you hear now is pre ignition on your new video, the car is idling too slow and has too much initial timing in it. We've determined that already, and Paul even told you the distributor was pulled after the dyno to check the bushing, and dropped back in before shipment, with a note stating the timing will have to be checked again. That's why I said "bingo" on that post, because it relates directly to the issue I'm trying to describe here.

I don't see anywhere yet where that has been done and verified so until that is finished with numbers and new video posted, it's pointless to guess or assume. But I'm 100% confident there isn't a problem inside that engine. Not with the cam, not with the distributor, not with the oil pump or anything related to it. Paul dotted the I's and crossed his T's going completely through it.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,

I know you're more experienced than I am but you can't say if the noise is the same or not. You're not here. NOTHING has been determined yet. I know you're backing Paul but my allegience is to my motor and the money spent on it. At this point, I don't care who's feelings get hurt. I did notice that you didn't address my question if the distributor bushing could have been damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. That in itself is telling. I see that you're cheerleading here and you only address questions that could support Paul. I don't care what your perception is of me by having conversations with Paul but only giving opinions based off your allegiance to Paul is obvious.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Formulajones,

I know you're more experienced than I am but you can't say if the noise is the same or not. You're not here. NOTHING has been determined yet. I know you're backing Paul but my allegience is to my motor and the money spent on it. At this point, I don't care who's feelings get hurt. I did notice that you didn't address my question if the distributor bushing could have been damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. That in itself is telling. I see that you're cheerleading here and you only address questions that could support Paul. I don't care what your perception is of me by having conversations with Paul but only giving opinions that puts blame on everything other than a select few facts does not help.

And you throwing fuel on the flames with no basis for facts is helping?? LOL Especially since you haven't even set the timing yet. Common...

Okay look, You've posted the noises with video.

A fact we know already....the clicking noise early on that was intermittent was the reluctor wheel in the distributor contacting the pickup. There is no arguing that. Fixed and done.

Could the distributor bushing have been damaged when it "spun a rod bearing??" (It didn't BLOW UP) That's nothing but speculation and no way of knowing that for sure. That part of the engine relies mainly on splash lubrication anyway and doesn't get all that much oil back there unless you drill that oil galley plug. So constantly going on about whether it could have done this or that is just jibber jabber. There is nothing telling about it. So there, that's pretty much the gist of it and answers your question.

I would rather stick to what we know for sure, that's what is going to help you and everyone else here. Plain and simple.

What we know for sure is that the timing needs to be set. Paul told you that. This also confirms my suspicion that your noise you have now that you posted for everyone to listen to, is likely a pre-ignition scenario. I've heard this noise before. Usually an engine that has too much timing at idle will do this. It was also more telling that the noise went away when the engine was revved. The fact that Paul says the timing needs to be reset because he pulled the distributor before shipment is also telling and goes along with where I believe the noise is originating from. So lets just concentrate on that first. There is no sense in throwing mud or assuming this or that. It's pointless.

[AG]

I don't think the distributor bushing would be damaged quickly if the oil pump pickup fell off. The bearings however, would be quickly damaged, both main and rod in less than several minutes with no oil flow. What do you mean by "the motor blew up"?

[Va68goat]

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

[Formulajones]

AG,

It's his way of wording things, which is actually confusing the matter more than helping.

It didn't BLOW UP, it simply spun a rod bearing, was caught very early and shut down. This should be pointed out correctly so everyone understands.

[Va68goat]

AG,

I may have used the wrong terminology. When the motor was on the dyno the first time, the oil pickup tube was not secured and it fell into the oil pan. The crankshaft had to be replaced, 2 rods, bearings etc. We DON'T know if it was caught early or not. It ran long enough to have to replace the crankshaft, 2 rods and bearings.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...You're the one opinion that says it's unlikely that the distributor bushing was damaged when the motor blew up on the dyno. No disrespect but I don't know you and though you know more than me, I don't know how knowledgeable you are or if you just want to come across as a guy that is.

The timing will be set tomorrow and I'm hoping like hell that is the issue. The few forum guys that have helped me, I trust 100%. I'm hoping all of this will be nothing but a distant nightmare.

I'm saying it's not likely, and there is no way for anyone to know any different one way or the other. It's not fact, it's just speculation. Doesn't matter at this point anyway because that was fixed and done, so there is no need to ponder it. Don't know why we are even still talking about it. That's water under the bridge.

What we are trying to help you with now is the current noise, and I've told you what I believe that sounds like and Paul has told you the timing needs set and why, so lets just get through that first and see what happens.