[Formulajones]

As far as I'm concerned there's only one pick whether it's a mild build or not, and that's the Hylift Johnson's with pin oiling. Yeah they are expensive, last set was $1400 for a sbc build I did just recently and I've seen the price as high as $1600, but I've never had or seen a set fail as in breakage, they run perfectly quiet, and I've had them in engines for many years without a problem. While others run cheaper brands and have issues with link bars, bleed down rates, noise, broken wheels, etc..... The problem though is price (understandable) and the fact that they are hit and miss as far as availability, they seem to go through stints where they are hard to get for months.

Probably a very close second would be the new evolutions, but even those are $700 which most here will consider too expensive as well. I'm actually going to try a set in another build I'm doing. At least if you get a noisy one you can swap out the cartridge for minimal cost. They have pin oiling and they've made the bodies thicker/stronger than previous versions from Comp. So it has potential.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

As far as I'm concerned there's only one pick whether it's a mild build or not, and that's the Hylift Johnson's with pin oiling. Yeah they are expensive, last set was $1400 for a sbc build I did just recently and I've seen the price as high as $1600, but I've never had or seen a set fail as in breakage, they run perfectly quiet, and I've had them in engines for many years without a problem. While others run cheaper brands and have issues with link bars, bleed down rates, noise, broken wheels, etc..... The problem though is price (understandable) and the fact that they are hit and miss as far as availability, they seem to go through stints where they are hard to get for months.

Probably a very close second would be the new evolutions, but even those are $700 which most here will consider too expensive as well. I'm actually going to try a set in another build I'm doing. At least if you get a noisy one you can swap out the cartridge for minimal cost. They have pin oiling and they've made the bodies thicker/stronger than previous versions from Comp. So it has potential.

That’s kind of my point, either pay the top dollar for the most expensive rollers or according to the six page thread on the new Evolutions once you figure out what the proper preload is that seems to be a moving target from the manufacturer buy some extra cartridges “just in case”

It’s almost 2025 & we’re dealing with either paying stupid money for lifters, guessing from a large manufacturer or worrying about flat lobes, no wonder guys switch to LS motors, what a sad state of affairs for us as Pontiac lovers.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by 67Lemons

That’s kind of my point, either pay the top dollar for the most expensive rollers or according to the six page thread on the new Evolutions once you figure out what the proper preload is that seems to be a moving target from the manufacturer buy some extra cartridges “just in case”

It’s almost 2025 & we’re dealing with either paying stupid money for lifters, guessing from a large manufacturer or worrying about flat lobes, no wonder guys switch to LS motors, what a sad state of affairs for us as Pontiac lovers.

Most problems on this have arose from engines that use HR cams to get a lot more power. Pick a small mild profile, .5” ish lift, with a cam intensity of 54* or more from .006” to .050”, don’t use to heavy of springs, and you will more than likely never be into your engine to look a the cam again, even with cheaper Morel or comp lifters.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 67Lemons

That’s kind of my point, either pay the top dollar for the most expensive rollers or according to the six page thread on the new Evolutions once you figure out what the proper preload is that seems to be a moving target from the manufacturer buy some extra cartridges “just in case”

It’s almost 2025 & we’re dealing with either paying stupid money for lifters, guessing from a large manufacturer or worrying about flat lobes, no wonder guys switch to LS motors, what a sad state of affairs for us as Pontiac lovers.

It's not just Pontiac, it's all brands. This is not a cheap hobby, especially when it comes to building engines and using good quality parts. Yeah it's 2025 and this stuff is not going to get any cheaper as time passes. Bidenomics didn't help things either.

Just as an example, I just finished a 327 sbc build. Considered by many to be the cheapest engine on the planet to build with huge aftermarket support. Well if you don't want to use ching chong parts, things aren't so cheap anymore. I used AFR heads, 6" Molnar rods, custom JE pistons, Bullet hydraulic roller with HYlift lifters, Crower rockers, etc....... It was $14,000 when I was all done. FOR A 327!!!! And I already had the block and crank laying around. It's not a race engine, just a nice street driver that made good power on the dyno and is daily driven. But,,,,,,it's all high quality parts, I'm confident it will give me many years of reliable service without complaint. There is nothing in that engine that I even remotely worry about.

That's how I approach every engine build here. Not that I'm proud it cost that much, that's just how things are these days. 10 years ago I could build that same engine for about $6000. It's not a poor mans game anymore.

So yeah, if you don't want a custom built engine, I can see your point, and it's why LS engines and even crate engines are becoming extremely popular now. Although I admit I'm pretty sick of seeing an LS in every damn car known to man now. But it's the environment we've created.

Just to give you another example. I have a 502 BBC crate sitting here fresh. I was going to make a 540 out of it with AFR heads. After pricing it all out with a nice rotating assembly, $4200 cylinder heads, nice roller valve train etc....it was going to set me back about $15,000 to make an easy 700hp with a mild street friendly pump gas engine build. I was contemplating back and forth and then ran across a Blue Print 598 crate engine, and they had a 10% off sale. It made 786HP and 772TQ on the dyno and 91 octane and came with a 3 year 50,000 mile warranty for $12,995!!!! I can't build it for that, let alone have a warranty when I'm done. Which one makes more sense? So yeah, I bought the 598 and never looked back. So far a fantastic engine with great street manors. I could even afford to upgrade some stuff, maybe pump up the power and reliablity and still come in cheaper than a custom build. So there is good argument for crate engines as well.

[Jay S]

Back when Morel was developing their HR lifter back in the early 2000s they did a spintron test to simulate 100K miles with a .650” lift cam. Now it seems like people are afraid to drive the car across the yard with them. Makes you wonder what happened between now and then.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Back when Morel was developing their HR lifter back in the early 2000s they did a spintron test to simulate 100K miles with a .650” lift cam. Now it seems like people are afraid to drive the car across the yard with them. Makes you wonder what happened between now and then.

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by i82much

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

A couple years ago took my TA out on a cold winter night, that was really damp and sound traveled from everywhere. Man it was like driving a horror movie car that was possessed!

[PAUL K]

Hy-lift "S" lifter is their top shelf lifter with close tolerance bleed down rates. It's their only performance quiet lifter..... They won't make them for our Pontiacs.

R lifter is considered a quick bleed lifter with consistent bleed rates. Noise is considered normal when used with performance valve springs and quick ramps.

951 is only recommended for use with stock/factory valve spring pressures due to uncontrolled bleed rates that can cause individual noisy lifters when use with fast ramp cams and stiff springs.

But supposedly the got their $1500 HR lifters right.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by i82much

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

I'm not sure if I'm freaked out. I'd just like a set of $300 lifters work as well as my old $59 lifters. Not a big fan of flat cams and collapsed pushrod cups. We should have the technology to (re) build them and make them better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster and quieter

[Formulajones]

As far as oil goes, 20-50 has worked perfectly fine for me for decades with flat tappets and roller lifters, regardless of who's name is on it or whether it has a wheel on the bottom or not. But I use a synthetic that has a way better pour rating than most other 20-50's on the market and as good as many 10-30's so the blanket statement these cam manufactures make of using certain viscosity oils for certain lifters really should be explained a little better to the public because there are too many variables with oils.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm not sure if I'm freaked out. I'd just like a set of $300 lifters work as well as my old $59 lifters. Not a big fan of flat cams and collapsed pushrod cups. We should have the technology to (re) build them and make them better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster and quieter

Boy so would I. It's disappointing the same lifters I bought 10 years ago, or even just 5 years ago for $500, are now over a thousand. Nothing has really changed with the lifter either.