[73T/A]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Some better pictures would be helpful.

All original service RAIV and early 197 heads didn't have date codes. It'd be a bit odd that the 1970 RASD head would have them.

From what you can see of the intake flange rail they look thin in the pictures. Possibly because the intake side was milled to match the deck. H-O heads could be safely milled to 91-93 CC.

The exhaust ports look heavily ported, a lot more than the heads that were ported by the shop modifying them for the Pontiac engineering department.

It wasn't uncommon for a head porter to install the SD455 sleeves for the same reason Pontiac did. They were available over the counter and easily obtainable.

Not sure why RUSS would have his name stamped on the heads unless he was afraid of loosing them.

The four 2's definitely looks like something the engineering department may have done but they were pretty slap happy with the numbered punches and like to use X a lot.

I found a rather lengthy article in which Herb Adams discusses the 303,,366 and 455-SD,Tom Neil,Jeff Young and Russ Gee are all in the article also.In the article they say that the sent heads out to three different head porting companies.Two located in California and one in Florida.One being Air Flow Research.Herb mentions that they sent some Ram Air IV heads to these companies and told them to do the works on them.They mention that the 455-SD was a clean sheet design using what they had discovered at Air Flow Research..Also mentions that it was Russ Gees idea to take what they learned on the 303,366 race programs and use it in the 455-SD.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 73T/A

I found a rather lengthy article in which Herb Adams discusses the 303,,366 and 455-SD,Tom Neil,Jeff Young and Russ Gee are all in the article also.In the article they say that the sent heads out to three different head porting companies.Two located in California and one in Florida.One being Air Flow Research.Herb mentions that they sent some Ram Air IV heads to these companies and told them to do the works on them.They mention that the 455-SD was a clean sheet design using what they had discovered at Air Flow Research..Also mentions that it was Russ Gees idea to take what they learned on the 303,366 race programs and use it in the 455-SD.

That's good information. Pontiac Engineering sent heads to AFR, Crane and Mullins. They were original service RAIV heads. The AFR were the clear winners and they were too busy to supply heads for Pontiac, so with AFR blessing they had Diamond Elkins copy AFR's work. It forged a long relationship with Elkins and later they helped develop the Turbo Regal heads. I've had heads and blocks come through my shop that came from the Pontiac Engineering Department. They had all kinds of numbers stamped on them. A lot more than just four twos and four ones. They really liked X and /. I've also worked on Pontiac round port heads that were worked on by Crane, Mullins and Elkins. All of them have the company name stamped on the ends of the heads. NONE of them had pushrod tubes installed.

There's a paper floating around written by a Pontiac engineer that used the AFR/Elkins head on the Pontiac flow bench that suggests the pushrod tubes and the port design changes at the flange for the SD head. Both those changes are incorporated into the SD heads.

The Unicorn 1970 RASD head was cancelled long before your heads were cast. We have a knowledgeable member here saying all 197's were cast around the same time. If Russ wanted to work with a special head why would he go with a 197 head? Why not the improved 7F6 head? He would full well know a RAIV head or SD head would kick the crap out of a 197 head. We all know that and he had access to a crap ton more information than we do.

If he used one of the RASD Unicorn heads would we assume the wrong later dates were added just to confuse the issue? Unfortunately we have no pictures of your intake ports but we know your exhaust port exits have been hogged out much farther than anything Crane, AFR, Elkins or Mullins was doing back in the day.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

That's good information. Pontiac Engineering sent heads to AFR, Crane and Mullins. They were original service RAIV heads. The AFR were the clear winners and they were too busy to supply heads for Pontiac, so with AFR blessing they had Diamond Elkins copy AFR's work. It forged a long relationship with Elkins and later they helped develop the Turbo Regal heads. I've had heads and blocks come through my shop that came from the Pontiac Engineering Department. They had all kinds of numbers stamped on them. A lot more than just four twos and four ones. They really liked X and /. I've also worked on Pontiac round port heads that were worked on by Crane, Mullins and Elkins. All of them have the company name stamped on the ends of the heads. NONE of them had pushrod tubes installed.

There's a paper floating around written by a Pontiac engineer that used the AFR/Elkins head on the Pontiac flow bench that suggests the pushrod tubes and the port design changes at the flange for the SD head. Both those changes are incorporated into the SD heads.

The Unicorn 1970 RASD head was cancelled long before your heads were cast. We have a knowledgeable member here saying all 197's were cast around the same time. If Russ wanted to work with a special head why would he go with a 197 head? Why not the improved 7F6 head? He would full well know a RAIV head or SD head would kick the crap out of a 197 head. We all know that and he had access to a crap ton more information than we do.

If he used one of the RASD Unicorn heads would we assume the wrong later dates were added just to confuse the issue? Unfortunately we have no pictures of your intake ports but we know your exhaust port exits have been hogged out much farther than anything Crane, AFR, Elkins or Mullins was doing back in the day.

If you actually go back and read my original post you will see that I never mentioned the year 1970 RASD cylinder head I don’t know were you came up with that.So no confusion on my end.
I would think that if one was developing the 455 SD head that the 1971 455 H.O. head would be a good one to use to get porting flow data.It has the same 111 cc combustion chamber as the 455 SD and the 71 455 H.O. 197 head has better exhaust flow than the 1972 7F6 head right of the bat.The 7F6 head has a restrictive exhaust port (information from page 47 Pontiac Engine Design & Blueprint Assembly book).Craig Hendrickson& Kern Osterstock.You say that the 7F6 head was a improved.In what area just curious.Also you mentioned that the heads being disused just have four 2’s and four 1’s.I guess you didn’t see the RUSS or work order numbers stamped that was mentioned.If you have some pictures of any of the numerous heads that came through from Pontiac engineering myself and others would love to see them for future reference.You mentioned about the exhaust ports on the 197 heads being discussed as all hogged out.I would think gasket matched but not much if any beyond that.I am using stock Ram Air Restoration exhaust manifolds with factory metal gaskets with no overhang in the ports.Also using a untouched factory 1971 455 H.O. intake using stock port Felpro 1233 gaskets.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 73T/A

If you actually go back and read my original post you will see that I never mentioned the year 1970 RASD cylinder head I don’t know were you came up with that.So no confusion on my end.
I would think that if one was developing the 455 SD head that the 1971 455 H.O. head would be a good one to use to get porting flow data.It has the same 111 cc combustion chamber as the 455 SD and the 71 455 H.O. 197 head has better exhaust flow than the 1972 7F6 head right of the bat.The 7F6 head has a restrictive exhaust port (information from page 47 Pontiac Engine Design & Blueprint Assembly book).Craig Hendrickson& Kern Osterstock.You say that the 7F6 head was a improved.In what area just curious.Also you mentioned that the heads being disused just have four 2’s and four 1’s.I guess you didn’t see the RUSS or work order numbers stamped that was mentioned.If you have some pictures of any of the numerous heads that came through from Pontiac engineering myself and others would love to see them for future reference.You mentioned about the exhaust ports on the 197 heads being discussed as all hogged out.I would think gasket matched but not much if any beyond that.I am using stock Ram Air Restoration exhaust manifolds with factory metal gaskets with no overhang in the ports.Also using a untouched factory 1971 455 H.O. intake using stock port Felpro 1233 gaskets.

I'm well aware you mentioned RUSS and a work order number. None of that indicates those numbers mentioned would have matched up with numbers from Pontiac Engineering. Only the twos and fours look like something they might've done.

The SD head was turned over to production about the time your heads were cast. There'd be zero time to send them to be ported, returned, evaluated and Dyno tested. I brought up the RASD head as that's the only 197 head made with an 87 CC chamber. You mentioned your heads were probably smaller than the measured 92cc . I figured if they're not milled 111 cc chambers the only other option is the RASD. Or am I missing something?

If your heads have been matched to a factory exhaust gasket, it's an optical illusion they look larger. If your intake ports match a 1233 gasket they're smaller than an SD455 intake port.

The 7F6 is a redesign casting made with a different casting process. It's more consistent, has better water jackets, has induction hardened seats, a short turn which will work better than a 197 head and possibly an over the counter IV head, for competition use. The exhaust is not a restriction what so ever compared to a 197 head. But regardless the engineering department knew a ported RAIV head kicked azz. They felt like the SD head was better than the IV head. I'm quite certain if Russ wanted to put his name on a pair of heads it would've been a top shelf head..... Not a modified 197 when he knew he had several better choices.

It seems more likely RUSS racing engines in Florida stamped their name and order number on those heads. Especially since they came from Florida and RUSS operated in that State. It'd also explain the 3/8 studs .... GM engineering was using the 7/16 RAIV parts on their dyno engines, it'd be likely Russ would've continued the practice.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm well aware you mentioned RUSS and a work order number. None of that indicates those numbers mentioned would have matched up with numbers from Pontiac Engineering. Only the twos and fours look like something they might've done.

The SD head was turned over to production about the time your heads were cast. There'd be zero time to send them to be ported, returned, evaluated and Dyno tested. I brought up the RASD head as that's the only 197 head made with an 87 CC chamber. You mentioned your heads were probably smaller than the measured 92cc . I figured if they're not milled 111 cc chambers the only other option is the RASD. Or am I missing something?

If your heads have been matched to a factory exhaust gasket, it's an optical illusion they look larger. If your intake ports match a 1233 gasket they're smaller than an SD455 intake port.

The 7F6 is a redesign casting made with a different casting process. It's more consistent, has better water jackets, has induction hardened seats, a short turn which will work better than a 197 head and possibly an over the counter IV head, for competition use. The exhaust is not a restriction what so ever compared to a 197 head. But regardless the engineering department knew a ported RAIV head kicked azz. They felt like the SD head was better than the IV head. I'm quite certain if Russ wanted to put his name on a pair of heads it would've been a top shelf head..... Not a modified 197 when he knew he had several better choices.

It seems more likely RUSS racing engines in Florida stamped their name and order number on those heads. Especially since they came from Florida and RUSS operated in that State. It'd also explain the 3/8 studs .... GM engineering was using the 7/16 RAIV parts on their dyno engines, it'd be likely Russ would've continued the practice.

I mentioned that these heads may have been purchased out of Florida.I don’t remember for sure it’s been 24 years ago.I never stated that these heads for sure came out of Pontiacs back door only the comment that the individual made during the purchase.I stated maybe they did or maybe somebody just had them ported.The Felpro 1233 does work on the 455 SD or 455 H.O. and Ram Air IV.People on this forum have used them on the 455 SD intake side.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 73T/A

I mentioned that these heads may have been purchased out of Florida.I don’t remember for sure it’s been 24 years ago.I never stated that these heads for sure came out of Pontiacs back door only the comment that the individual made during the purchase.I stated maybe they did or maybe somebody just had them ported.The Felpro 1233 does work on the 455 SD or 455 H.O. and Ram Air IV.People on this forum have used them on the 455 SD intake side.

Understood..... The 1233 is smaller than a factory SD-455 port. It is the correct size for a RAIV/HO port.

You seemed to think Russ Gee may have been involved with your heads. I suggested, it seems more likely RUSS racing heads were involved with your heads. They even spell RUSS the same way it's stamped on your heads.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Understood..... The 1233 is smaller than a factory SD-455 port. It is the correct size for a RAIV/HO port.

You seemed to think Russ Gee may have been involved with your heads. I suggested, it seems more likely RUSS racing heads were involved with your heads. They even spell RUSS the same way it's stamped on your heads.

That is good info that you found on Russ Barfield.👍I need to look up more info maybe some one out there has a known set ported by him with those similar stamping.The Russ Gee reference was just a another possibility since he was involved with engine development etc.If another set of heads surface that would answer the question.If you look at the specs on the Felpro 1233 gasket there is only .02 differences in the height.The Felpro 1233 is actually talller than the RA IV port.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm well aware you mentioned RUSS and a work order number. None of that indicates those numbers mentioned would have matched up with numbers from Pontiac Engineering. Only the twos and fours look like something they might've done.

The SD head was turned over to production about the time your heads were cast. There'd be zero time to send them to be ported, returned, evaluated and Dyno tested. I brought up the RASD head as that's the only 197 head made with an 87 CC chamber. You mentioned your heads were probably smaller than the measured 92cc . I figured if they're not milled 111 cc chambers the only other option is the RASD. Or am I missing something?

If your heads have been matched to a factory exhaust gasket, it's an optical illusion they look larger. If your intake ports match a 1233 gasket they're smaller than an SD455 intake port.

The 7F6 is a redesign casting made with a different casting process. It's more consistent, has better water jackets, has induction hardened seats, a short turn which will work better than a 197 head and possibly an over the counter IV head, for competition use. The exhaust is not a restriction what so ever compared to a 197 head. But regardless the engineering department knew a ported RAIV head kicked azz. They felt like the SD head was better than the IV head. I'm quite certain if Russ wanted to put his name on a pair of heads it would've been a top shelf head..... Not a modified 197 when he knew he had several better choices.

It seems more likely RUSS racing engines in Florida stamped their name and order number on those heads. Especially since they came from Florida and RUSS operated in that State. It'd also explain the 3/8 studs .... GM engineering was using the 7/16 RAIV parts on their dyno engines, it'd be likely Russ would've continued the practice.

I mentioned the 3/8 rocker studs and such that were on the heads.In retrospect the 3/8 rocker studs aren’t much of a indicator in how the heads were used in the past do to the fact that they can be changed and swapped out with 7/16 versions in minutes.Do to the fact the heads were 31 years old when I acquired them it’s anybody’s guess.

You mentioned that the 197 heads with a date code of Dec 1970/Jan 1971 would not be used for testing etc due to lead time for the 1973 SD-455 head.It seams plausible to me that there would be enough time .Not necessarily my heads but heads with that date code in general.I never heard that the SD-455 program was turned over to production in the Dec 1970/Jan 1971 time frame.Are you referring to casting the cylinder heads.I have seen a SD-455 head dates of Oct 1972 and some with no dates stamped on them those are probably earlier yet.Im sure the SD-455 guys know.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 73T/A

I mentioned the 3/8 rocker studs and such that were on the heads.In retrospect the 3/8 rocker studs aren’t much of a indicator in how the heads were used in the past do to the fact that they can be changed and swapped out with 7/16 versions in minutes.Do to the fact the heads were 31 years old when I acquired them it’s anybody’s guess.

You mentioned that the 197 heads with a date code of Dec 1970/Jan 1971 would not be used for testing etc due to lead time for the 1973 SD-455 head.It seams plausible to me that there would be enough time .Not necessarily my heads but heads with that date code in general.I never heard that the SD-455 program was turned over to production in the Dec 1970/Jan 1971 time frame.Are you referring to casting the cylinder heads.I have seen a SD-455 head dates of Oct 1972 and some with no dates stamped on them those are probably earlier yet.Im sure the SD-455 guys know.

You are so right about some of the mysteries that surround these engines. My early 73 SD-455 engine has NO casting numbers on the exhaust ports and NO date codes. Only the full part number on each head. It has "A" connecting rods in it so I feel safe saying it was a pretty early engine.

[johnta1]

Here's a sheet that SDBob has explaining the dyno tests they did back in 1971.

[73T/A]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

You are so right about some of the mysteries that surround these engines. My early 73 SD-455 engine has NO casting numbers on the exhaust ports and NO date codes. Only the full part number on each head. It has "A" connecting rods in it so I feel safe saying it was a pretty early engine.

The 455-SD is definitely a unique engine.Even though it was produced in low numbers it’s a wonder that it even made it into production with upper management at Pontiac changing attitude toward performance and the federal regulations on the horizon.No other mfg had anything like it at the time.