[Skippy597]

Hey everyone
Looking to get some group thoughts on oil pumps and if the price premium is worth it.

First the basic choice:
Melling m54ds 60 psi around $90
This seems to be the go to basic pump offering no frills but solid functionality.

Next the "step up":
Melling 10540 60 psi pump around $170
For some reason this pump is almost double the cost and though a lot of people praise it on here I can't fully understand why. Is it worth it? I see some people stick recommend a thicker plate which is another $30-40.

The possibly overpriced option:
Butler performance BPI-M54DS-PRO 60-70 psi pump $210
This one boasts a whole slew of upgrades including thicker plate and dimpled gears. This appears to be a modified melling M54 pump from the part number. I'm sure this is a good pump but is it worth more than twice the basic M54DS?

Ok so for a 90% street / 10%strip car is it worth the premium for either more expensive pump? Looking for your guy's experiences with any of them.
Thanks

[JLMounce]

Another options is the Nitemare Performance pump.

http://www.nitemareperformance.com/h...20oilpump.html

I'm running this along with Darren's gun drilled hardened driveshaft and his oil pan. My engine builder had high praise for the pump.

[Skippy597]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Another options is the Nitemare Performance pump.

http://www.nitemareperformance.com/h...20oilpump.html

I'm running this along with Darren's gun drilled hardened driveshaft and his oil pan. My engine builder had high praise for the pump.

Looking at nightmare performances page I'm not sure what they do to make the pump better. Their listing pretty much is a direct copy and paste of the melling 10540 pump. And appears they just add their plate to it. I may be wrong but I don't know why they wouldn't list the work done to improve performance.

[sdbob]

I was going to order the pro plate thank you for the info.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by sdbob

I was going to order the pro plate thank you for the info.

I still have one sitting in my toolbox. Not going to use it. A PY member PMed me about it and yep, that groove is too large a circle to do anything good. It can only make things worse.
I took a standard Nightmare plate and copied the location for that little slot the cast iron plates have. Got a small dia cutoff wheel and carefully made my own slot, dusted the edge with a piece of 400 grit .
I just found another pump on E Bay that a non Melling which is what I want as this one has enough meat around the pickup tube boss to use a Ford Mod .900 dia pickup tube.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Skippy597

Looking at nightmare performances page I'm not sure what they do to make the pump better. Their listing pretty much is a direct copy and paste of the melling 10540 pump. And appears they just add their plate to it. I may be wrong but I don't know why they wouldn't list the work done to improve performance.

I'd recommend talking with Darrin at Nitemare directly. Like any of the performance pumps, they start with a melling piece and blueprint from there. If I recall my conversations, it's checked for straightness, run-out on the gears etc.

Darrin talked more specifically about the plate. It's a machined steel plate at .25" and the pro option has a .040x.040 machined ring under the drive and coast gears. It adds direct lubrication to the underside of the gears and Darrin claims in helps with cavitation.

I did his hole kit at the same time. pump, driveshaft and oil pan.

I won't pretend to be an oil-pump expert, but my engine building was impressed with the pump. He gave me unsolicited praise of it when I mentioned the engine had a nice oil pressure curve on the dyno. It does just about 85psi at 6000 rpm. With the hole kit I've never once seen oil starvation issues, and I swing the car around a good bit.

[Skippy597]

Thanks JL wasn't aware of that one.

[P@blo]

I was wrong and the Butler pro pump machines the foot, sorry guys.

[Skippy597]

I do know there is even more expensive options from Butler, Luhn and Titan but I excluded those as they seem overkill for mostly street engine

[steve25]

What size are your mains on this motor. 3.00” or 3.25”?

[67Lemons]

I bought a blueprinted pump from Spotts, haven’t installed it yet but the price was reasonable and he does great work.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28680442067...IAAOSw47hiarjb

[mgarblik]

In the Pontiac world, oil pump choice is almost as controversial as what oil to put in it. I will simply post this for perspective. The Pontiac oil pump is a very simple device. 2 spur gears and a relief ball. That's it. All the "designer " pumps came about because the basic, perfectly good oil pump was cheapened up over the decades and the quality control went to hell. The old, HP pumps had a cast or thick bottom plate, ground flat. The check ball seat was lapped, machined properly and didn't leak. The surface top and bottom where the bolt heads go to attach to the block was machined flat on both sides. Short cuts were taken by the aftermarket in all these areas to save money and this introduced trouble areas on an otherwise bullet proof component. The "designer" pumps you buy for double the cost of a basic pump simply return it to the way a basic pump was made in the 1960's. You can fix or check all this stuff yourself easily or buy one that has been checked for you.
We ran regular M54F, (80 lb. relief), pumps in the Grocery Getter drag race car for 15+ years @ 8000 RPM's, and made 1500 HP with it. Never hurt a main or rod bearing in those engines. The only modifications were a welded pick-up tube and a thick bottom plate.
Being somewhat cheap, I start with a basic pump and check the items mentioned above and call it a day. We ran a factory hardened drive shaft in our pumps. Heat treated aftermarket ones look nice. Awfully hard to justify super fancy, gun drilled centerless ground, hardened drive shafts for a car going to the cruise in a dozen times a year. If it were a Ford driving the oil pump with a 1/4" Allen hex drive, that's a different story. Good luck with your build.

[sdbob]

What ever pump you buy take it apart. In the early 70s we found a 'big paper clip' inside one.Maybe also check for flash from machining.

[Skip Fix]

If it were a Ford driving the oil pump with a 1/4" Allen hex drive, that's a different story
Yea my college roommate's 35C 4 speed Ranchero snapped one!

[1969GTO]

so would a 1968 GTO 400 engines original oil pump with 45000 original miles on it, be worth just a good cleaning and reassemble?

[steve25]

Yes and since it’s a 60 psi pump it will have the thick bottom plate.

[Skippy597]

3" mains on my build

So it sounds like what I was already thinking, that the m54ds is good just tear it down and check it out first. does anyone have any specs for the pumps as to what the clearances should be?

Is a thicker plate truly worth the extra $30-40 or can I just take the regular plate and some glass and sandpaper to make sure it's flat.

I really don't understand what makes the 10540 pump nearly double the cost.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Skippy597

3" mains on my build

So it sounds like what I was already thinking, that the m54ds is good just tear it down and check it out first. does anyone have any specs for the pumps as to what the clearances should be?

Is a thicker plate truly worth the extra $30-40 or can I just take the regular plate and some glass and sandpaper to make sure it's flat.

I really don't understand what makes the 10540 pump nearly double the cost.

This is the plate you want. There is no reason to use a cast iron thick plate. Why, they have countersunk bolt holes for a flathead screw or Allen bolt.
Problem is with that countersunk hole you can not fabricate a hold down strap between a bolt and you pickup.
That is the way you want to do it. Under no circumstances should you tack weld (iron/steel weld ?) a pick up to pump body. And do not mess around with screws or pins either. Why would you put anything in the flow of your oil when you can just make a strap bolted to this nice and thick Nightmare plate ?
But I am a oil pump nerd. I go all the way and enlarge the pickup dia,, 9/16" check ball with shims,drill the little oil divot in the bottom of the gears too. Even the inside dia of a 3/4" tube is marginal for size. Been proven.
http://nitemareperformance.com/pumpplate.html

[steve25]

Even when I have a think bottom plate on my pump if I have a thin steel one from a 40 psi I sand / grind the notch off it and bolt it on to the top of thick plate.

I set up my pumps with .004” gear to plate clearance.

I polish in a nice radius from the outlet of the gear cavity and I double pin the pickup tube to the pump body after making sure the lip of the pickup screen case is sitting on the cast locating lip on the side of the pump body.

[Skippy597]

Perfect, thanks Steve!