[Jay S]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Do you like the Evolutions over the johnson 21160pr? I see they have another one that has shorter travel. ST21160PR. .030 total travel? Whats your thoughts on that one?

heres a link

https://vincentperformance.com/parts...fters/pontiac/

Short travels generally don’t last half as long as a limited travel lifter. I’d only use short travels for an engine that is mostly race on a modern platform that it isn’t practical to use a mechanical roller. I skip over short travels and go right to mechanicals on older platforms.

For this cam I think the Evolutions are a better designed lifter than the limited travel Johnson 21160PR and also have a better oil band location with pin oiling. Johnson hasn’t offered a lifter with pin oiling for a Pontiac yet. I would expect they could offer pin oiling eventually, they offer pin oiling for other platforms. The evolutions would be my choice over the Johnson PR for your application.

The Johnson’s are not a bad choice though and are a good alternative for those that do not want something from Comp. Some high points for Johnson are (like AG said) they are completely USA made and generally better quality control. Plus you can call right to the company and talk to someone that is an expert about lifters that is higher up than entery level sales. I would switch to the Johnson on an application if the valve springs requirements needed a lifter that can handle higher valve spring pressures or spring rates over 400 lbs/in.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Short travels generally don’t last half as long as a limited travel lifter. I’d only use short travels for an engine that is mostly race on a modern platform that it isn’t practical to use a mechanical roller. I skip over short travels and go right to mechanicals on older platforms.

For this cam I think the Evolutions are a better designed lifter than the limited travel Johnson 21160PR and also have a better oil band location with pin oiling. Johnson hasn’t offered a lifter with pin oiling for a Pontiac yet. I would expect they could offer pin oiling eventually, they offer pin oiling for other platforms. The evolutions would be my choice over the Johnson PR for your application.

The Johnson’s are not a bad choice though and are a good alternative for those that do not want something from Comp. Some high points for Johnson are (like AG said) they are completely USA made and generally better quality control. Plus you can call right to the company and talk to someone that is an expert about lifters that is higher up than entery level sales. I would switch to the Johnson on an application if the valve springs requirements needed a lifter that can handle higher valve spring pressures or spring rates over 400 lbs/in.

HI Jay: I'm wondering if this is the same lifter your referring to, not lasting as long as limited travel lifters?
I put a set of the Johnson Short travel lifters ST21120RP in a 400 stroked years ago and sold it. Guy is still running them with probably close to 80K miles with never an issue. Just curious. They do need a very precise last setting though. Thank you.


https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...ters/ST2112OPR


I always seem to get confused with the Johnson Lifters and the Hylift Johnson Lifters.

[Formulajones]

I'm not overly impressed with the evolutions. I run them in my daily now, thought I'd give them a try. Before that I was a Johnson or hylift johnson user exclusively with absolutely zero issues. Wish I put Johnson's in this engine now and it may come back apart to do the swap.

It's just a mild 383 SBC that makes 460hp. Has a small 224 @.050 hydraulic roller and springs are only 135 on the seat. Sewing machine noise is there all the time and if it sits for several hours I have one that bleeds down and ticks on start up for a second until oil pressure takes over.
Rather than screw around with cartridges and hope I get a good one I'm likely just going to shelf these and swap to Johnson's and be done with it.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I'm not overly impressed with the evolutions. I run them in my daily now, thought I'd give them a try. Before that I was a Johnson or hylift johnson user exclusively with absolutely zero issues. Wish I put Johnson's in this engine now and it may come back apart to do the swap.

It's just a mild 383 SBC that makes 460hp. Has a small 224 @.050 hydraulic roller and springs are only 135 on the seat. Sewing machine noise is there all the time and if it sits for several hours I have one that bleeds down and ticks on start up for a second until oil pressure takes over.
Rather than screw around with cartridges and hope I get a good one I'm likely just going to shelf these and swap to Johnson's and be done with it.

What part number is the hylift johnsons youre using?

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

HI Jay: I'm wondering if this is the same lifter your referring to, not lasting as long as limited travel lifters?
I put a set of the Johnson Short travel lifters ST21120RP in a 400 stroked years ago and sold it. Guy is still running them with probably close to 80K miles with never an issue. Just curious. They do need a very precise last setting though. Thank you.


https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...ters/ST2112OPR


I always seem to get confused with the Johnson Lifters and the Hylift Johnson Lifters.

Hi Charles, yep those are definetly short travels Johnson’s. I need to do some research and see what the difference is between the 20 and the 60. . With yours having worked good to 80k miles though, I’d say they deserve a second look. I know of a couple guys that are running Johnson ST’s and are working well. I can easily be out of the flow of information when it comes to short travel on these engines because I have not been using them. Hylift Johnson’s engineering stance has been short travel are up to 70% shorter life from their testing. The general consensus over all is short travels are not expected to last as long. Morel ST’s have been hit and miss on longevity. Maybe Johnson has the ST ‘s figured out.

80K miles is a good run. What is the rest of the cam?

I know of other evolutions noise has been mixed on some other platforms running heavier springs. One of the guys on here had the axles slide out off a pair of Johnson’s last year. There is good reason for confusion with HR lifters.

[Formulajones]

Thing is I'm not running any spring pressure to speak of. 135 on the seats is whimpy for a hydraulic roller ,, that's dam near solid flat tappet territory.

SBC doesn't need a ton of pressure anyway the valvetrain is pretty light. Not like a Pontiac or BBC where I typically run 150-160 seat pressure on a hydraulic roller

So to have sewing machine noise and also have one bleed down after sitting a bit with these little springs doesn't speak to well of the evolutions in my eyes.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Thing is I'm not running any spring pressure to speak of. 135 on the seats is whimpy for a hydraulic roller ,, that's dam near solid flat tappet territory.

SBC doesn't need a ton of pressure anyway the valvetrain is pretty light. Not like a Pontiac or BBC where I typically run 150-160 seat pressure on a hydraulic roller

So to have sewing machine noise and also have one bleed down after sitting a bit with these little springs doesn't speak to well of the evolutions in my eyes.

If I remember right you have a Bullet cam in that SBC too. They are easier to make quiet than these XR comps. That should have been dead quiet. (Edit)think the Bullet is in the 327 has HLJ SE’s. I am not sure which engine has Evo’s?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Jay S

If I remember right you have a Bullet cam in that SBC too. They are easier to make quiet than these XR comps. That should have been dead quiet. (Edit)think the Bullet is in the 327 has HLJ SE’s. I am not sure which engine has Evo’s?

That is correct the 327 has a bullet cam with HLJ SE's.
I just finished up a 383 (3000 miles so far) and put the evo's in it just to try them since they had rave reviews. Not working out for me.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That is correct the 327 has a bullet cam with HLJ SE's.
I just finished up a 383 (3000 miles so far) and put the evo's in it just to try them since they had rave reviews. Not working out for me.

What is the cam in the 383?

We took a G body with a 377 SBC to a few races last summer with a 242/248 XR comp. Which is the next step up from this 236/242 cam. It ran well, but was not quiet as far as sowing machine noise, it has the regular comp lifters, not the evo’s. We were shifting it a 6200, it nosed over hard after 6200.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Hi Charles, yep those are definetly short travels Johnson’s. I need to do some research and see what the difference is between the 20 and the 60. . With yours having worked good to 80k miles though, I’d say they deserve a second look. I know of a couple guys that are running Johnson ST’s and are working well. I can easily be out of the flow of information when it comes to short travel on these engines because I have not been using them. Hylift Johnson’s engineering stance has been short travel are up to 70% shorter life from their testing. The general consensus over all is short travels are not expected to last as long. Morel ST’s have been hit and miss on longevity. Maybe Johnson has the ST ‘s figured out.

80K miles is a good run. What is the rest of the cam?

I know of other evolutions noise has been mixed on some other platforms running heavier springs. One of the guys on here had the axles slide out off a pair of Johnson’s last year. There is good reason for confusion with HR lifters.

The engine is a stroked 400 block. 4.25 crank with KRE d-port heads. The cam is Old Faithful from Dave at SD. I believe the springs are Crane 99893 from back in the day. Probably 140 seat/ 380 open. The guy has the engine in a 1970 GTO. He may even have more miles on it than what I posted. Were in Klms up here. I know he just had a build done as the Carb stud fell into one of the cylinders, but he's still running the same Johnson lifters. I believe he's running Amsoil 10w-40 oil. Guy at Johnson told me no heavier than 40 weight. I also advised him to set the lash precisely at .030 with a dial indicator.