[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Jay S

I have not seen that Isky HPx are available with Pontiac link bars. I assume your machinist is talking about the HPx. It would be great if they were available for a Pontiac, all it would take is a different link bar. I think the HPx lifters are completely in a league of their own as far as advancements. They are 7500 RPM lifters that can run spring pressures and 525 lbs springs. They have a bushing option also. They are made by Johnson in Taylor Michigan.

Johnson PR’s are limited travel and would work about like the Evolutions but they are not pin oiled and don’t have the advancements in the plunger feeding like the HPx. Isky and Johnson worked together to come up with the HPx and are more advanced than a PR. The PR will handle more spring pressure than an Evolution.

Isky gave me this part number but its not coming up 9077hyrt.

I'm so confused on what to do it's not even funny lol

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Jay S

It depends how aggressive the profile is. The body is rated for up to 500 lbs. But they won’t make it anywhere close to 500 lbs in a Pontiac and perform well. I’d say 150lbs seat an 400 open with .650ish lift is safe with the Bulter XR cam and evo’s. The OF1 could probably run about 165 lbs and 430 open with .650 ish lift and go a few hundred more RPMs than the more aggressive XR.

Good to hear. My KREs have PAC 1914 springs:
155lbs @ 1.835, 385 lbs @ 1.200

With the Harland Sharp 1.65 rockers, my lift is .627/.632

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Isky gave me this part number but its not coming up 9077hyrt.

I'm so confused on what to do it's not even funny lol

HAH! Well I will try a little better to not be confusing. Just go ahead and order those Isky’s.

The top 2 selling lifters are Evolutions from Compcams, and the Johnson 21160PR (which also go by Isky 9077hyrt and Crower has a part number also) Isky’s online catelog is hard very to sort thru, they never seem to have all their inventory listed. You have to call them to order something. It has always been like that. Gaterman’s the same way, you have to call them.

I have suggested Johnson lifters before, I am not afraid of them. I wish Isky would sell the HPx for a Pontiac. Quite a few guys choose Johnson over the Comps because the comps have more offshore parts in them, not everyone loves Compcams. I have Johnson mechanical rollers in one engine.

I actually have Hylift Johnson hydrualic rollers on the shelf, which is also an American made lifter.I have not mentioned them because I feel plunger valving is superior on the Johnson PR (or Isky 9077) for the cam you have.

[AG]

I have Johnson's (not Hylift Johnson's) and decided to use them after speaking to them directly and being told they are 100% manufactured in the US. Have not used them yet, but I have used Comp Evolution and was happy with them.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by grivera

I have the evolutions on my 66 with the Old Faithful 1 cam, but very little run time on them. They do make a sewing machine sound at 800-850 rpm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_s1wJKm_Y

I thought the evolutions were quiet? I have a set ill be installing in the next month or 2.......or 3.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Jay S

HAH! Well I will try a little better to not be confusing. Just go ahead and order those Isky’s.

The top 2 selling lifters are Evolutions from Compcams, and the Johnson 21160PR (which also go by Isky 9077hyrt and Crower has a part number also) Isky’s online catelog is hard very to sort thru, they never seem to have all their inventory listed. You have to call them to order something. It has always been like that. Gaterman’s the same way, you have to call them.

I have suggested Johnson lifters before, I am not afraid of them. I wish Isky would sell the HPx for a Pontiac. Quite a few guys choose Johnson over the Comps because the comps have more offshore parts in them, not everyone loves Compcams. I have Johnson mechanical rollers in one engine.

I actually have Hylift Johnson hydrualic rollers on the shelf, which is also an American made lifter.I have not mentioned them because I feel plunger valving is superior on the Johnson PR (or Isky 9077) for the cam you have.

Do you like the Evolutions over the johnson 21160pr? I see they have another one that has shorter travel. ST21160PR. .030 total travel? Whats your thoughts on that one?

heres a link

https://vincentperformance.com/parts...fters/pontiac/

[grivera]

Originally Posted by scott70

I thought the evolutions were quiet? I have a set ill be installing in the next month or 2.......or 3.

Relatively speaking, they are. It’s a sewing machine noise, vs a ticking noise like other brands.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by scott70

I thought the evolutions were quiet? I have a set ill be installing in the next month or 2.......or 3.

I agree, I was under the impression that the Evolutions were quiet but I was also under the impression that tappet noise can also be a function of steep lobes so with a roller is that worse?

[tom s]

I think my H&S rockers are the sewing machine noise?Tom

[scott70]

Originally Posted by 67Lemons

I agree, I was under the impression that the Evolutions were quiet but I was also under the impression that tappet noise can also be a function of steep lobes so with a roller is that worse?

Yes,,,I actually thought of the aggressive lobe thing after I wrote it.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Do you like the Evolutions over the johnson 21160pr? I see they have another one that has shorter travel. ST21160PR. .030 total travel? Whats your thoughts on that one?

heres a link

https://vincentperformance.com/parts...fters/pontiac/

Short travels generally don’t last half as long as a limited travel lifter. I’d only use short travels for an engine that is mostly race on a modern platform that it isn’t practical to use a mechanical roller. I skip over short travels and go right to mechanicals on older platforms.

For this cam I think the Evolutions are a better designed lifter than the limited travel Johnson 21160PR and also have a better oil band location with pin oiling. Johnson hasn’t offered a lifter with pin oiling for a Pontiac yet. I would expect they could offer pin oiling eventually, they offer pin oiling for other platforms. The evolutions would be my choice over the Johnson PR for your application.

The Johnson’s are not a bad choice though and are a good alternative for those that do not want something from Comp. Some high points for Johnson are (like AG said) they are completely USA made and generally better quality control. Plus you can call right to the company and talk to someone that is an expert about lifters that is higher up than entery level sales. I would switch to the Johnson on an application if the valve springs requirements needed a lifter that can handle higher valve spring pressures or spring rates over 400 lbs/in.

[Jay S]

Even though the OF1 has a more lift than a 236/242 Bulter cam, the Bulter cam will make just as much sowing machine noise as the OF1. The OF1 has softer profiles on and off the valve seats. The more aggressive intensity of the Bulter cam is why it is not a good candidate to run with mechanical lifters on Aluminum heads. The OF1 works fine with mechanical lifters on Aluminum heads.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Short travels generally don’t last half as long as a limited travel lifter. I’d only use short travels for an engine that is mostly race on a modern platform that it isn’t practical to use a mechanical roller. I skip over short travels and go right to mechanicals on older platforms.

For this cam I think the Evolutions are a better designed lifter than the limited travel Johnson 21160PR and also have a better oil band location with pin oiling. Johnson hasn’t offered a lifter with pin oiling for a Pontiac yet. I would expect they could offer pin oiling eventually, they offer pin oiling for other platforms. The evolutions would be my choice over the Johnson PR for your application.

The Johnson’s are not a bad choice though and are a good alternative for those that do not want something from Comp. Some high points for Johnson are (like AG said) they are completely USA made and generally better quality control. Plus you can call right to the company and talk to someone that is an expert about lifters that is higher up than entery level sales. I would switch to the Johnson on an application if the valve springs requirements needed a lifter that can handle higher valve spring pressures or spring rates over 400 lbs/in.

HI Jay: I'm wondering if this is the same lifter your referring to, not lasting as long as limited travel lifters?
I put a set of the Johnson Short travel lifters ST21120RP in a 400 stroked years ago and sold it. Guy is still running them with probably close to 80K miles with never an issue. Just curious. They do need a very precise last setting though. Thank you.


https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...ters/ST2112OPR


I always seem to get confused with the Johnson Lifters and the Hylift Johnson Lifters.

[Formulajones]

I'm not overly impressed with the evolutions. I run them in my daily now, thought I'd give them a try. Before that I was a Johnson or hylift johnson user exclusively with absolutely zero issues. Wish I put Johnson's in this engine now and it may come back apart to do the swap.

It's just a mild 383 SBC that makes 460hp. Has a small 224 @.050 hydraulic roller and springs are only 135 on the seat. Sewing machine noise is there all the time and if it sits for several hours I have one that bleeds down and ticks on start up for a second until oil pressure takes over.
Rather than screw around with cartridges and hope I get a good one I'm likely just going to shelf these and swap to Johnson's and be done with it.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by charlie66

Do you like the Evolutions over the johnson 21160pr? I see they have another one that has shorter travel. ST21160PR. .030 total travel? Whats your thoughts on that one?

heres a link

https://vincentperformance.com/parts...fters/pontiac/

I should have looked at those part numbers closer. Those are pin oiled. I”ll look into those closer.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

HI Jay: I'm wondering if this is the same lifter your referring to, not lasting as long as limited travel lifters?
I put a set of the Johnson Short travel lifters ST21120RP in a 400 stroked years ago and sold it. Guy is still running them with probably close to 80K miles with never an issue. Just curious. They do need a very precise last setting though. Thank you.


https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...ters/ST2112OPR


I always seem to get confused with the Johnson Lifters and the Hylift Johnson Lifters.

Hi Charles, yep those are definetly short travels Johnson’s. I need to do some research and see what the difference is between the 20 and the 60. . With yours having worked good to 80k miles though, I’d say they deserve a second look. I know of a couple guys that are running Johnson ST’s and are working well. I can easily be out of the flow of information when it comes to short travel on these engines because I have not been using them. Hylift Johnson’s engineering stance has been short travel are up to 70% shorter life from their testing. The general consensus over all is short travels are not expected to last as long. Morel ST’s have been hit and miss on longevity. Maybe Johnson has the ST ‘s figured out.

80K miles is a good run. What is the rest of the cam?

I know of other evolutions noise has been mixed on some other platforms running heavier springs. One of the guys on here had the axles slide out off a pair of Johnson’s last year. There is good reason for confusion with HR lifters.

[Formulajones]

Thing is I'm not running any spring pressure to speak of. 135 on the seats is whimpy for a hydraulic roller ,, that's dam near solid flat tappet territory.

SBC doesn't need a ton of pressure anyway the valvetrain is pretty light. Not like a Pontiac or BBC where I typically run 150-160 seat pressure on a hydraulic roller

So to have sewing machine noise and also have one bleed down after sitting a bit with these little springs doesn't speak to well of the evolutions in my eyes.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Jay S

I should have looked at those part numbers closer. Those are pin oiled. I”ll look into those closer.

I looked it up and Johnson still does not appear to have pin oiling for a Pontiac. That link that says they are pin oiled appears to be wrong. The 3rd number in the part number should be a 2 or a 3 for pin oiling. All the Pontiac offering the 3rd number is a 1.

The 21160 is .3” taller than the 21120. I recalled that was what it was but I wanted to make sure. That is usually a feature for aftermarket blocks and higher lift cams. I would have to double check what the oil band position is.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Thing is I'm not running any spring pressure to speak of. 135 on the seats is whimpy for a hydraulic roller ,, that's dam near solid flat tappet territory.

SBC doesn't need a ton of pressure anyway the valvetrain is pretty light. Not like a Pontiac or BBC where I typically run 150-160 seat pressure on a hydraulic roller

So to have sewing machine noise and also have one bleed down after sitting a bit with these little springs doesn't speak to well of the evolutions in my eyes.

If I remember right you have a Bullet cam in that SBC too. They are easier to make quiet than these XR comps. That should have been dead quiet. (Edit)think the Bullet is in the 327 has HLJ SE’s. I am not sure which engine has Evo’s?

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I'm not overly impressed with the evolutions. I run them in my daily now, thought I'd give them a try. Before that I was a Johnson or hylift johnson user exclusively with absolutely zero issues. Wish I put Johnson's in this engine now and it may come back apart to do the swap.

It's just a mild 383 SBC that makes 460hp. Has a small 224 @.050 hydraulic roller and springs are only 135 on the seat. Sewing machine noise is there all the time and if it sits for several hours I have one that bleeds down and ticks on start up for a second until oil pressure takes over.
Rather than screw around with cartridges and hope I get a good one I'm likely just going to shelf these and swap to Johnson's and be done with it.

What part number is the hylift johnsons youre using?