Why do you think the Holden sales suck in the US?

[Goathead]

Here is your chance. It is not selling, and that is a fact. Now why is that?

[Geronimo675]

So Danny, what WOULD you buy? I don't know of any car that meets your criteria. Isn't that why most of us have more than one car?

I had a GTP(roomy,fast), TA(handles, real fast), a Kawasaki 750 Vulcan and a Ford Probe(work car). They pretty much covered all my vehicle wants and needs. Could use a small truck but can't afford one.

The one that gets me the most is "the price is way too high for a car of it's class". I'm not shootin' at you, many people have said the same thing. Can anyone name ANY other car this fast, room for 4 adults, excellent quality, with a low to mid $30K price?

Personally I think the bland look is the major selling problem. That and people always want somethin' for nuthin' and ain't willin' to pay
for more.

By the way, I live in Germany and BMW's ain't all that. And they're UGLY!

[455HOGT37]

To the marketing effort:

I'm channel surfing this morning and run across a show about this "drifting" nonsense. Yep, just as I thought, it's just a ricefest. Anyway, what FACTORY SPONSORED (marketing)vehicle was the star of the show for all these misguided children? The 2004 "GTO"! Who is the target market again? Does Pontiac even know?

It gets better! Next I see the teaser for the next "Grandmaster Puff Daddy, Pimp Your Ride" episode. Some poor car is going to get a set of spinner 22's, a big "phat" spoiler, and God only knows what else. Can anyone guess which car it is? A 2004 "GTO". I'm not sure if GM provided the car, but it sure smells like product placement to me.

I didn't think Pontiac could do worse with their marketing of the car, but guess what, they did. I guess we can expect a boost in sales from the "get sideways in the high school parking lot" crowd as well as the 'hood.

Good job Lutz!

[Goathead]

So, if the non believers and the believers on this site agree on the cosmetic appeal of this desigh, why can't GM snap?

In the past, Muscle cars were know to be a mid size car with the top of the line engine in it.
Where is the top of the line engine? Not where it belongs...

[Goathead]

why the new GTO isn't selling, and thats because of all the negativity,

So who is negative about this car other than some people on this site? The consumer...

Let me guess. The .00000005% of the buying market on this site has ruined the car, right?....get real...the car does not sell because of various reasons, but that statement is total bullsh!#...

Hell, you are even too much of a wimp to even cast a vote. I guess when your opinion counts, all bet's are off..

[svede1212]

p.s. it's not a holden. it's a pontiac head goat

[KVman389]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
Goathead posted:
"Hell, you are even too much of a wimp to even cast a vote. I guess when your opinion counts, all bet's are off.."


The reason I have not cast a vote is because all the negative choices that you have listed are not pertinent to my opinion. It is not because I or any of the 2004 GTO owners are wimps as you suggest.

Why don't you run a poll to ask why the original GTO was discontinued? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In case you were still in diapers, or not even thought of yet. The 1974 GTO was based on the smaller "X" body. It was the only year GTO for many things. Some of them- All had functional cold or Ram Air, shaker hood, unitized body, leaf spring rear suspension, only year with 350 engine (also no engine options), hatchback body style, no GTO emblem in left grille. It was a changing world when the '74s were introduced in late '73. After the bad sales of GTOs for a few years (and all muscle cars for that matter), Pontiac tried to appeal to a newer market by downsizing/ lightening the car and used new marketing too. The industry was already hurting and adjusting to changes imposed on them by the government. Things like upcoming mandatory unleaded fuel requirements, 5 mph bumpers (later reduced in the 80s), strict emmissions standards. All those things hurt horsepower/performance and/or added weight. The GTO and performance were not popular words when you had to wait an hour or more to get gas and more expensive gas too! With another poor sales year in '74 , Pontiac axed the GTO. It was still a good car but, facts are facts, if people aren't buying them they can't make money and that is that. The GTO name has been considered countless times since '74 to reappear. I can thank Pontiac for not doing it. Let the name and the legend live as it is. Now the latest word is that Pontiac is bringing back the GTO as a foreign car in '03. Lovely

[RAIVJUDGE]

I was going to buy a new GTO and drove one. It had one of the nicest interiors that I have seen in a while. It had plenty if power and handled excellent , no rattles or squeaks. The problem IMO is that they are going after the 3 series BMW crowd with a car that looks a lot like a Grand Am. The people who buy a Lexus, BMW, etc don't even know what a GTO is and in some respects a Pontiac does not give them the illusion of prestige that they are looking for. By ignoring the people who would buy and do know what a GTO, GM is feeling the pain of that mistake with slow sales. Personally I feel it is a nice looking car but I will wait for the restyled one coming soon that looks as if it will pay some respect to the GTO's heritage.

[charlzm]

Sorry, if the only way to get the 400hp is to get that butt-ugly retro-stripe and Judge badging, I might have to check out the '05 Charger...

I'm not in love with the past, when cars were heavy, not fuel efficient, didn't handle all that well and had lots of stickers and odd paint jobs. I'll take the Pontiac Monaro in stealth mode trim...

[Goathead]

'05 Charger...

You talking about this Hemi powered dog?





It's not retro, it's got a style of it's own, works for me...

[The Who]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Charlzm:
I saw this exact Charger concept at the LA Auto show in January 2000. It had previously been seen at the Detroit show in January of 1999, meaning it was developed in 1997 and 1998. It was powered by a supercharged, compressed natural gas engine and was a total one-off concept.

At that time, Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Jeep (note the lack of Daimler in there) had no rear-drive platforms to base the vehicle on.

They also did another one-off design based on the same concept called the Venom.

Now that Daimler/Chrysler has the rear drive platform that will allow a Charger to be built, the dimensions and body shape of the concept will not be able to carry over without a redesign. Attached is one person's concept of what the new Charger will look like based on the dimensions of the 300C and the Magnum wagon.

I recall reading in one fo the car mags that the Charger will have to be fairly inexpensive to develop and needs to be done quickly (remind anyone of the current GTO situation?). This means minimal changes to drivetrain, sheetmetal, suspension, etc... for budgetary reasons alone, I think the Popular Hot Rodding magazine concept is probably a lot closer to what we'll see than the old 1998 concept.

Here is the article that accompanies the photo:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...0404phr_dodge/ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that looks like ****, it's like a mix of the crossfire(i think) and a ptcruiser front.

[KVman389]

Before anything is said, my last post is from the history pages of Pontiac Heaven. Now, no need for a poll.

[stonebreaker]

I wouldn't say they're ignoring them, I'd say they just haven't quite figured out who they are yet.

Personally, I'd hate for the yuppies to discover this car anyway - one of the fun things about owning any muscle car is handing some beemer-driving yuppie his behind when he thought he was going to walk all over you.

While BMW makes a great car, I'd guess at least 90% of their sales are status sales - only about 10% of the beemer owners actually appreciate the car's performance. It's those 10% that I think this car can successfully target.

[HUMBLER]

Woa, now that's nice.

That stripe is sweet! I'd leave the Judge off though, the stripe is enough. The best thing is it's more 70 than 69!

[Nickv]

It's because most car enthusiasts don't know a performance car if it hit them in the ass. They are to worried about the look, instead of performance. Posers.

[stonebreaker]

Definitely like the judge rendition. The styling cues are more enhancements to the car's lines, rather than distractions. Lowered suspension, big rims, and slight changes to the front. The hood scoop even fits the lines of the car, something I didn't think you could do. I still don't want one, but I have to complement the artist - he really knows his stuff. The only thing I really dislike is the tach on the hood. I know it was a styling cue on the original, but it breaks up the line of the car too much for my taste. Same for the graphic on the front quarter panel. Nice picture.

[RAIVJUDGE]

Humbler:
I have seen all of the print ads and TV commercials that Pontiac has run recently and they are trying to market the car to performance minded people now but middle aged? Then why the Pontiac sponsored drifter car they are campaigning, sounds like the Too Fast Too Furious crowd to me. I have it from an internal source that the GTO was to be geared and marketed to the BMW 3 series, Lexus, etc crowd ( which I believe the GTO is a good comparison to the 3 series Beemer) They really were not looking to market the car to people who have owned GTO's in the past and now I think they are realizing that the initial target market should be the people who know what a GTO is.

As far as price gouging I know a few dealerships around here that are willing to deal so that the GTO's don't sit and eat up their floor plan.

I am not whining as I stated before I was going to buy one and really like the handling and power,and it's a decent looking car, but to have to buy a new hood and a body kit to make the car look more like a GTO should is ludicris, I can't wait for the 05 or 06 GTO. I also agree with you that they should not reinstate The Judge option just add a stripe like on the above rendition.

[HUMBLER]

You crack me up Goathead! I'll give you an A for effort...

[The Who]

damn, that 05 Charger sure looks good, it has a bad ass look to it, a look that a muscle car should have. nice find there Goathead

[Goathead]

Here is your chance. It is not selling, and that is a fact. Now why is that?