[Ray Cox]

if you would like some good info or test data on why NOT to use a progressive and how hard it is on your equipment call me or email me progressives are Very very bad for your motor and none of the FAST cars use them only the wana be's 219-405-7269

[kennyg1669]

BAD FOR YOUR MOTOR! I guess that's why all the guys that run in the worlds fastest street bikes(Prostar) run them! If you want to be easy on the bottom end of your engine and you want to control tire spin then use the schnitz box! I had the pnc-101 and is a very good product!

[Region Warrior]

Hay Brian, did you eat alot today? Hydrolic cylinoid. Hyrdrolic sowlinoid. hidrolic solynod. Spelling isnt my problem, typing without looking is. I'm a novice when it comes to nitrous, but i can put 3800lb NA car in nines. 8's are looking better all the time.

[kennyg1669]

I want to be like (Ray) when I grow up!

[Brian Baker]

Yes, I had enough to eat today. You?

Can you get that 3800 lbs. into the 9's naturally aspirated with d-ports and a 850 Holley?

Ken, dropping the fuel back to 90% didn't realy make it "safer", it just made it so they'd have to pump more fuel into the engine. Now they're at 85% in an effort to slow them down, but it hasn't yet.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

As long as the A/F ratio stays within the required limits along with timing then the engine can't experience problems from progressive timers as it's seeing the same A/F all the way thru the rpm range.
Actually applying limited amounts of Nitrous at lower rpms with a progressive timer is less detrimetal then if the rpms are too low and vast quantites are injected.
Remember that N/A engines pull the amount of Air and fuel it requires as the rpms increase. But with Nitrous, you put what ya put the entire rpm range.

[ofm7432]

For all the NoX junkies..... outside of traction (which is an issue for me) is it any easier on parts to bring the nitrous in after initial launch, say around the 60ft. mark? Also, are there any alternatives to the $400. - $500. delay boxes that are out there now? For a weekend racer on a budget that may be overkill, but I can't think of another way to do it outside of manually triggering it (which I assume would hurt having consistant times).

[69v8tr6]

Nitrous is fed to the engine thru a jet and other then the pressure dropping in the bottle the flow should remain the same. As the RPM's increase the nitrous will become a smaller percentage of the total air. Nitrous puts a big load on the engine at lower RPM's but at lower RPM's the engine isn't seeing the huge forces that come with hi RPM. Follow the rules for fuel volume and octane, pull some timing, run a cooler plug and at all cost keep it out of detonation. 13 years of 125 to 175 hp on the same cast 1967 oil squirter rods. ( polished, shot peened and ARP bolts) Hell the whole time I have run the rods full floating without a bushing because I didn't want to remove the metal on the small end.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

To show you how ignorant you are, Nitrous had no efect on the freeze plug deal. But if you can't write. I won't expect you to be able to read past posts I have posted as to the reason for the mishap. BTW. At least I fixed my issue and raced Lil' Jack. And ran 8.90's at Orlando with the same engine in October.
BTW: With a Schnitz Progressive timer on a harder compound street tire.
If I remeber correctly, you sat in the pits all Norwalk weekend shooting water everywhere but the in the sink.
I fixed my issue you didn't. But then again, that's where experience and knowledge comes into play.


I like you last statement. Now they might possibly work?
Bwhahahahahahahahahahaha.

Wish you luck & Hope you finally get it together this year.
Race Hard & Have Fun.

[74t/a]

I don't know of anyone running a progressive controller, so I can't give relative advice about them. I have some customers that have run them and have stopped because of the trouble they have had with solenoids. My customers mostly run either circle track (no NOS) or outlaw 10.5 cars. The outlaw cars are limited to a specific tire size. Our cars hit it out of the hole with a 36 jet, bring a 34 in .4-.6 seconds out, and the third system is hand operated.

I have seen a true 10.5 tire take a 36 hit out of the hole with a ladder bar set-up. It is all in the suspension. The local guys are running a class that is stock suspension, 3200lbs, all steel except hood and bumpers. They are 1.18-1.23 60/ft. and run mid to low 5's in the 1/8th on a 29.5/10.5X15 M/T.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

You have to look past the slow motion aspect. The solenoids are off and in a very short time over a very short period. Rapid sucession.
Also depends on the seat area and lift rate of the solenoid. A lot of issues developed back in the begining when they used a softer rubber type seals in the solenoid. They would swell and create sticking issues.
The flow is constantly increasing as it's applying both gas and Nitrous.
The valves in an engine open and close the same way. We are not talking using the timer to bring power in for a great distance or time period.
Slamming 400hp of Nitrous at 4500 rpms and trying to move over 3000 lbs is a lot harder on bottom end parts then bringing on 400hp over a longer period of time. When your applying any kind of power adder things are gonna exert pressure. But that's why a blower is easier on parts as it applies force/hp as the rpms require. Using a timer kinda applies the same theory with Nitrous. But we are talking limited tires/suspension and bigger quantities of Spray tomake the car hook. Everything depends on application and rules.
Hard on solenoids, maybe. Hard on engines if You follow the rules. I don't see how.
Definately easier on the drivetrain and tires.
And if you using it for even lesser amounts of Nitrous, well........
I don't think reversion would be an issues as we are talking over 4000 rpms and rapid engine valve timing and the same withthe solenoids. That's when ya get into camshaft profile and design.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Here's a website for Schnitz.

http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/ca...showprevnext=1

[ofm7432]

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to try out the DCS-101 Nitrous Power controller. Seeing as I'm not going to be racing every weekend, this may help to prolong the life of the solenoids. I also like the tune-ability and the consistancy you can get from the controller. Like everything else.... if your gonna to play with the bull, you have to be prepared to take the horns.

[Brian Baker]

Another factor on why some of the "Big Dawgs" don't run a timer is because the class rules they run in won't allow them. I know for a fact based on watching local nitrous Ford guy, Chris Little. Chris' Mustang has not been competitive in about 2 years now, but when it was, he was running 8.60's on a 10" BFG radial, using a single plate that I surmised was jetted for a 350-400 HP hit. He used a "poor mans timer"...a button mounted on the steering wheel. He wasn't allowed to run wheelie bars, so to keep the car from flipping over backwards on launch, he would "stutter" the solenoids with his thumb on the button.

Yes, timers are a little harder on the solenoids, that's just common sense. If the solenoid has "X amount" of times it will open and close before showing wear on the seals or just burning out altogether, "stuttering" it with a timer will accelerate the wear. Are they necessarily "bad"? No. Solenoids in essence are just a relay, with a mechanical valve attahced. Relays can be activated/deactivated quickly without issues. NASA uses their ability to transmit signals through space over long distances without having to use a huge and heavy transmitter (I'd explain how they do it Ray, but it wouldn't fit in with this discussion). The biggest issue with wear on the solenoids would be the mechanical part. I think at this level of racing that is being discussed, getting 2 seasons out of a solenoid before it needs replacing is good.

[Ray Cox]

Made no reverance to you I made a post to the other peoplein this thread

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Yes spraying after the launch is easier on parts. And especially if ya bring it in gradually. Plus it's another tuning devise.
The <span class="ev_code_RED">Schnitz</span> progressive timer is one of the best out there. I used it for years and really like the adjustments it has. I went thru 2 N.O.S. brand timer units. Cost me a round at Orlando in 2001.

Just put a WOT switch on the carb and wire it in.

[issach428]

how often do your selenoids need to be rebuilt when using a progressive controller?

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ray Cox:
the problems created with a progressive are not the destruction of the cylinoid, they can be replaced!

so I guess not caring about exact spelling on every word means Im not qaulified to talk about nitrous? Im not sure what meets your qaulifications brian to talk about nitrous, but even when I ran a wet deck my tune ups didnt lift the heads enough to pop freeze plugs

I guess I need to stop talking about nitrous since Im not qaulified

Brian it is an extreme example but since your into the blowers and nastalga cars, what happens to a top fuel car when they try to pedal it at half track? and it was a more serious problem in years past but is now getting better with new nozle technology </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ray, the point I am making in regards to spelling is, how can you expect anyone to take what you're saying on a technical subject as a credible resource of information when you misspell words that your average 4th grader can nail?

Reminds me of the joke about the two guys in the plane:

One guy wants to start a conversation with another he just met about nuclear power and how it harms the environment, so the other guy said "I have a question for you first". So he asks, "Horses crap in large balls, cows crap in large clumps, and goats crap in small pellets...if they all eat pretty much the same thing, why is this so?" The guy didn't know, so the other replies "let me get this straight, you don't know ***** yet you want to talk about nuclear power?"

And what does my very limited knowledge on blowers and fuel injection (especially relating to "nostalgia tune ups") have anything to do with this discussion or with the modern day top fuel tuneup? Nonetheless, fuel nozzle technology has changed very little in the last 10 years, even though fuel cars have increased MPH by at least 30 and dropped ET's into the sub 4.5 second zone. They still pop blowers and intakes from time to time too, just like they did in the past. How you can compare a modern fuel engine that is pumping 90+ GPM of fuel into the engine to that of even a Pro Mod nitrous injected engine pumping nowhere near the same amount of fuel into it is beyond me.

[kennyg1669]

Yeah! What he SAID!