Nothing's changed! - Page 8 - PY Online Forums

rabon008 · #**141** 12-07-2004, 10:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
baby got back?http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ws...S6/WS6Rear.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showc...rant04/05_0005

Yeah. Baby got back.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**142** 12-07-2004, 11:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

2. its obvious they cant sell them in the body it is in now. i bet by the end of the year i could walk into a delership and throw down $20,000 cash and say i want that car and i bet theyd take it because they can barely give them away. hows that for sales ?

3. i wouldnt buy one because im not into imports. it wouldnt mind the expierence of what a AWD turbo feels like. (especially one that is faster then the new GTO in the 1/4)

id hold out for the 05 gto if i was in the market for a new chevy. since it has a pontiac badge with a chevy motor and australlian car does that really make it a pontiac ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where is it obvious until you try it? If you are so bright and have $20,000 cash, go do it. Right now I have a standing offer to me for $25,899 for a 04 with a Ram Air hood and chrome wheels. Want the dealers name?

Oh, you're not into imports but you bring them up to make a point...I see how it is.

let me know when a import is running 12.9's because that is what the 05 GTO is running.

AGain, I'll find me a GM website where it says Chevrolet V8. Otherwise STFU about it being a Chevy V8 because obviously you have ZERO clue of what you are talking about.

Pontiac says it is a POntiac. Pontiac said the Bauemont was a Pontiac too. Going to tell me it wasn't? Pontiac said your fathers Firehawk was a Pontiac. It was made the same place the Bauemont was. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok lets think a minute to understand.i dont want a new GTO. how much were the 04's when they first came out? $35,000 ish? now theyre knocking off $6-7,000+ to get you to buy one. sounds like desperation to me. in other words its not selling. theyd do anything (take $20,000) to get rid of them. no im not into imports but its sad when they can hang with a V8 out of the box (lack of effort by GM).

Mr_GTO · #**143** 12-08-2004, 03:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
mr-gto, the rest of the world including GM, as evidenced by the 1st web site posted in my earlier thread recognizes the lineage of the ls1 and ls2 engines. It is not a fresh design as your smoke screen replies have tried to make it out to be. You have a tendancy to leave out anything that would make you look wrong. Thats OK. GM couldn't celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Chevy small block if the ls1 and ls2 weren't around. As they themselves noted on the GM web site. I have proved my point whether you care to admit or not. Next thing you'll come up with is that it isn't a Chevy based motor because it not painted red. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't realize that bore spacing was the "smokescreen for a freshe design" LOL, ok David, you tell me which part of the traditonal SBC and the LS1 based motors are interchangable.

Mr_GTO · #**144** 12-08-2004, 03:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

ok lets think a minute to understand.i dont want a new GTO. how much were the 04's when they first came out? $35,000 ish? now theyre knocking off $6-7,000+ to get you to buy one. sounds like desperation to me. in other words its not selling. theyd do anything (take $20,000) to get rid of them. no im not into imports but its sad when they can hang with a V8 out of the box (lack of effort by GM). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh the car is $33,190, and MANY dealers were not budging from sticker and many added money to it. That, lack of marketing is what hurt the car early on. Simple as that.

I don't have any problems with imports that can hang with domestics. It has been that way for 5 years now. Get used to it, it is hear to stay. AND Domestics are getting into THEIR GAME.

Fine, go buy and drive what you like. If that is a 71 GTO that gets 13mpg and tach's at 3300rpm at 60mph and runs in the mid 13's that is fine with me. I'll get a car that does all that, I can drive across country without worry, gets more than double the gas mileage and has all modern conviences.

KVman389 · #**145** 12-08-2004, 04:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:

Uh the car is $33,190, and MANY dealers were not budging from sticker and many added money to it. That, lack of marketing is what hurt the car early on. Simple as that.

Fine, go buy and drive what you like. If that is a 71 GTO that gets 13mpg and tach's at 3300rpm at 60mph and runs in the mid 13's that is fine with me. I'll get a car that does all that, I can drive across country without worry, gets more than double the gas mileage and has all modern conviences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A standing offer of $25,899. I say why don't you stop talking the talk, and just walk the
walk

David Jones · #**146** 12-08-2004, 04:51 AM

You need to ask GM that, since they consider it from the same family. I don't remember saying parts are interchangeable between any of these pieces. I suppose you have parents. Probably can't change parts out with them either. One thing I've noticed on any threads you "contribute" to is that in your own mind you are never wrong. You like the last word. I made my case and I believe everybody but you realize the family history of this line of engines. Maybe you really don't. No matter. I now realize that any further talk makes me look as silly as you do. I don't want that. Your a funny guy.

Goathead · #**147** 12-08-2004, 06:33 AM

Rabon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Doesn't sound like you have much of an ACTUAL GTO Left! I would prefer to drive a real GTO, as Pontiac ordered it built, including my '04. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least I started with a real Pontiac GTO and a real Pontiac motor, how about you? What did you start with, and actually end up with come to think of it...

A foreign car with a name change....

So, after all of the changes I have made, I still have more of a GTO than you...what do you think about that...amazing...

gtohurstjudge · #**148** 12-08-2004, 07:40 AM

Mr. Whatza Monaro.... You will hear from me
no more on this forum because this whole bashing
of the new GTO has gotten way beyond the point of ridiculous, but I will make the following observations. The newest Pontiac you have ever owned is a 1970 model. The 70 GTO that you do own is a beater that you will get around to restoring someday. In case you haven't heard,
Pontiac has been making cars for 35 years since
your GTO was built.Other than some beater GTO's
that you have owned, you are into Chevelles,
Corvettes and BMWs. My advice to you would be
as follows....Trade your beater BMW on a brand new one...Go join a club
that caters to plastic fantastics.... and most important of all, consider
spending your Pontiac related time restoring your GTO rather than spending
all of your time bashing the new GTO on this forum. You are NOT a Pontiac
enthusiast and never will be. Given that fact, it is hardly shocking that
you don't like the new GTO, and when I read your future Pontiac related
opinions I will be taking them with the microscopic grain of salt that they
deserve.

RandyW · #**149** 12-08-2004, 08:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
This thread is just as pathetic as the one in the lobby about the 05 Mustang, which AGAIN turned into a hate fest about the new GTO.

Funny **** man. Too funny.

While some of you guys continue to argue I will go into my garage and admire my Pontiacs for awhile.

CY all later!

http://images8.fotki.com/v115/photos...9/00152-vi.jpg
1967 GTO
11.5@117

http://images5.fotki.com/v69/photos/...SCN0040-vi.jpg
1972 Lemans Sport Convertible
13.6@102

http://images6.fotki.com/v96/photos/...SC00015-vi.jpg
2004 GTO 13.3@104 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey man, is that the Ocean City, MD cruise??

By the way for the uniniated, the LS1 is a 'clean sheet design'. It is not a Chevrolet engine, it is a GM powertrain division engine. The only parts interchangeable with a SBC are the rod bearings. Divisions such as Chevy and Buick,etc... do not build engines any more and haven't for years. All are built by GM's powertrain div.

Tripower455 · #**150** 12-08-2004, 09:55 AM

Geez,

You guys are STILL feeding the troll?

Whata-Morono, someone that registers a new user name for the SOLE purpose of annoying others is a troll.

Note that the other guys who agree with you (Danny, DJ etc) haven't changed their user names, and continue to post their opinions. Funny, no one seems to have a problem with their opinions (even if they're wrong

, take note of the

guys).

If your opinions are correct, then why are you afraid to espouse them under your original name?

Your opinion doesn't make you a troll, your attitude does. There is a difference.

I am a die hard Pontiac nut, and have owned 6 of them over the years, two of them were imports with "Chevy" engines ('01 Formula and '04 GTO), the rest were: 2 '66 GTO's (still own one), a '69 GP and a '77 GP. The '04 GTO is by far the best overall (performance, comfort handling, mileage etc) car of the bunch. I wouldn't trade my '66 for an '04, but for a car that is actually driven, the '04 is almost perfect.

I was initially very dissapointed with the new GTO. I saw one at a car show that my POCI chapter put on to mark the debut, and felt it looked much better in person than in any picture of it. A friend bought one and it looked even better, which prompted me to go drive one. I liked it even more, and after a few weeks, went in and traded my Formula for a new one, and have never regretted the decision.

FWIW, the guys in my POCI chapter, who are hard core Pontiac guys, really like the new one.

The bottom line on the new GTO:

It is a bland appearing, rebadged Holden with a "Chevy" engine in it (a great engine in my personal experience, even if it does share bore spacing and rod journal size with the traditional sbc

). Face it guys, we are never getting a RA IV or SD 455 again, and the LS-1 is a damn good substitute.

IMHO, it should have been called something other than GTO.

Other than these small issues, it is an awesome car. It is head and shoulders above the 4th gen F body in every way, except, again IMHO, looks and possibly straight line acceleration.

As someone who actually drives the car, the (lack of) looks department works for me. It is invisible to the cops and just as importantly, most ricers and backwards hat, John Force wannabe, rustang drivers. My Formula was a cop/ricer/rustang MAGNET.

While I've never taken either to the track, my Formula felt faster, but I can't tell if the far superior ride quality of the GTO might be dampening my seat of the pants o meter and the car does haul ass.

Lutz got it right in every department, except the looks, and the more I drive mine, the better it looks.

I still wish he called it something else.....

Just my $.02

red70goat · #**151** 12-08-2004, 10:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:

Whata-Morono, someone that registers a new user name for the SOLE purpose of annoying others is a troll.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeez: Can you and the esteemed Mr. GTO read?? I've answered that redudndant question several times. Get over it. So you don't lose any sleep over this my original user name was red70goat or something like that. I quit posting due to narrow minded idiots such as yourself who were boring the hell out of me when I made the effort to have somebody convince me why I should buy what GM was erroneously calling a 2004 GTO. That was nearly a year ago and I couldn't remember what my original user / password was. BTW: I was called a troll when I did have my original user name for the sole reason of voicing opposition to your beloved hero and mentor Bob Lutz.

Tripower455 · #**152** 12-08-2004, 10:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> BTW: I was called a troll when I did have my original user name for the sole reason of voicing opposition to your beloved hero and mentor Bob Lutz. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are called a troll, because you are a troll. A narrow minded troll, with limited reading (or any other) comprehension skills at that.........

Your reason for the troll name makes about as much sense as you trying to cover up the fact that you were wrong about the 70 GTO endura issue. If you lost your username and password, why not just email CCass and get the old one, or at least get a new one that isn't a troll name. You became "WhataMorono" for the sole purpose of trolling, because, according to you, people were sick of your same, weak arguments.

Open up your mind, come up with some reasonable arguments without resorting to the personal attacks, and maybe you won't be treated as or called a troll. I am not holding my breath.....

Until then, you're a troll.

I think I hear your mom calling you.......

disc0monkey · #**153** 12-08-2004, 10:45 AM

let me remind all of you we are talking about the 2004 GTO not the 2005. So don't bring the '05 into it, that car was made with pontiac's tail between their legs. the 2004 was the result of a cocky company that doesn't care about their loyalists. period. There is nothing like the feeling i get when i pop the hood on my '71 and I see the blue motor stairing at me. I know it will not happen again, but it would be cool if they did something like the intake or something a vintage blue.

disc0monkey · #**154** 12-08-2004, 10:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by gtohurstjudge:
Mr. Whatza Monaro.... You will hear from me
no more on this forum because this whole bashing
of the new GTO has gotten way beyond the point of ridiculous, but I will make the following observations. The newest Pontiac you have ever owned is a 1970 model. The 70 GTO that you do own is a beater that you will get around to restoring someday. In case you haven't heard,
Pontiac has been making cars for 35 years since
your GTO was built.Other than some beater GTO's
that you have owned, you are into Chevelles,
Corvettes and BMWs. My advice to you would be
as follows....Trade your beater BMW on a brand new one...Go join a club
that caters to plastic fantastics.... and most important of all, consider
spending your Pontiac related time restoring your GTO rather than spending
all of your time bashing the new GTO on this forum. You are NOT a Pontiac
enthusiast and never will be. Given that fact, it is hardly shocking that
you don't like the new GTO, and when I read your future Pontiac related
opinions I will be taking them with the microscopic grain of salt that they
deserve. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a rediculas replay, first you say, what pontiacs do you one, in a tone thinking he had never owned any. They he slaps you by saying he owned three, and still has one. Though he might not have the time or money right now to restore it, you say his opinion doesn't count, or he is a pure BMW fan. Or the fact that you said how many points he got at a GTOAA show? Are you kidding me? GTOAA show? When restoring my car I did it how I want, not caring about what the GTOAA judges though. People like you ruin the fun of this. thats why so many people don't get there cars judged anymore because of crap people say about their cars. BTW I missed third place at GTOAA because I didn't have GM hose clamps, and I had my spare upside down because it was a Ralley II and i wanted it facing up. Fair is fair, the man knows what a pontiac is and he feels this is not one.

Tripower455 · #**155** 12-08-2004, 10:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
let me remind all of you we are talking about the 2004 GTO not the 2005. So don't bring the '05 into it, that car was made with pontiac's tail between their legs. the 2004 was the result of a cocky company that doesn't care about their loyalists. period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cosmetic differences between the '04 and '05 are: Scooped (functional) hood and separated exhaust pipes.

The only real difference between the '04 and '05 is the LS-2, otherwise, they are the same car. The 50 hp increase of the LS-2 is pretty easy to build into the LS-1, fwiw...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> There is nothing like the feeling i get when i pop the hood on my '71 and I see the blue motor stairing at me. I know it will not happen again, but it would be cool if they did something like the intake or something a vintage blue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be cool if they did that. They fell short in the appearance department.

Tripower455 · #**156** 12-08-2004, 11:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Fair is fair, the man knows what a pontiac is and he feels this is not one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair is fair, he is a troll. (that's period.)

A man will defend his opinions with logic and fact. A troll merely attacks those that "disagree" with him, since he has neither logic or fact to back him up.

red70goat · #**157** 12-08-2004, 11:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]Fair is fair, the man knows what a pontiac is and he feels this is not one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair is fair, he is a troll. (that's period.)

QUOTE]

You've proven my point. Thank you.

Tripower455 · #**158** 12-08-2004, 11:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>You've proven my point. Thank you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL....

You have a point?

Actually, you've, once again, proven one of mine!

red70goat · #**159** 12-08-2004, 11:17 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gtohurstjudge:
The 70 GTO that you do own is a beater
QUOTE]

yup, my 70 Goat is a well worn beater that hasn't been started in years and I love it.

red70goat · #**160** 12-08-2004, 11:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>You've proven my point. Thank you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL....

You have a point?

Actually, you've, once again, proven one of mine!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad I could help you do so. Your point is that regardless if somebody has owned and still does own a GTO and they feel this is not one that makes them a troll. Point taken. I am a troll. A proud one at that. Now go on and make issue of changing user names, erroneous quote postings, etc. That seems to be the extent of your agenda. BTW: Tell me again, how the GM Monaro is a GTO? In your book, if Dodge had slapped a Hemi Charger badge on a Mitsubishi with hemisperical heads I guess that would make it a Hemi Charger right? Given that GM owns the marketing rights to the name "Pontiac GTO" they can call whatever they have in their inventory a Pontiac GTO. Not for my money. I'll keep my 740i, my C5 and the old 70 until Beavis and LutzHead Inc. give us a real GTO.