[PONTIAC DUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BANDITONE:
Tom --I know this kind of racing takes big bucks$$$$$$$$$$$$$ but with all of JBP's etc. work http://www.jbp-pontiac.com theres a few RICH PRO PONTIAC GUYS out there . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But...... are they going to play in the Big (NSCA/Pro Edelbrock/Pro Mod, Etc) or Little (Pontiac Event) Pond?

Yes Big bucks. Ray is close so he's itch'n real bad. LOL.

[Ray Cox]

I agree it dose take big money, however
BIG MONEY DOSENOT always win!
most but not all of the guys I race in x/s pull up in toter homes with stacker trailers or have not one but two 40,000.00 pat musi motors in the trailer, now Im not winning yet but I think I am a threat, and that is with no buget. the buget things are starting to change, thanks to some of the pontiac world like TTS, Buttler, PY,BOP, All Pontiac, and others.

if I can make the power I am relably with used beat up stuff, what if the dram happened and

* Race Engineering built the chassis
* Buttler Did all the Labor and some Parts
* TTS supplied the transmissions
* DCI supplied the Heads
* PY helped with Marketing ,graphics and Image
* Whites continued support they already Give
* All pontiac Supplied a block or two
* Bop Intake, belt drive and such

and last but not least the members here I am ammazed at the support and help I am able to get at all events from board members, the best part is the chevy freinds I have talking about it! they came back from lousiana, scratching there heads wondering, and saying what is this are you pontiac guys going to gang up on us or what?

there is a lot to be said for the advertising benifit that the sponsors would gain from a team like this if it were compeditive

look a little at the stats for this year, team green has been slipping and there are new players coming around

would this be easy NOT A CHANCE! but it could be done.

The car is easy, my chassis shop is drooling over the idea, and they are very capable,
whites is on board 100%
Im prety sure Butler is,the same for Py & TTS
theres a lot of free parts to be had from MSD EDLBROCK and otheres they are starting to help me here lately as well. I am very sure Nitrous express would cover the entire system

two key players would be All Pontiac and A good cylinder head form one of the new ones coming out.

There are some very real possibilities more than I can even talk about at this time but STAY TUNED ! right now we need to concentrate on winning some xtreme street events Im not happy with qaulifying 6th & 7th and being 4th in the points ! I need to try to step things up at BG next week and with the progress in the cam Via the Belt drive I think we will.
now if only the driver would remember the nitrous arming switch

[bad69bird]

Ray,
Best of luck to ya and congrats with your success

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ray, you said Pat Musi's class and the threat of Pontiacs. Not the class your running.

Big Difference between the Limited rules class you run and the Open Street class.

But still....Gett'in lucky and makin rounds on others mistakes and 'consistantly' getting to the finals on ET's are two different things.

Yes it takes money or you wouldn't be asking or stating what It will take to make the # to be competitive.

I told you at the beginning it looks to be a 8.0 to 8.20 class. And it is.......already. Still lacking that 1/2 second.

As you stated, that dude got lucky to go those rounds. Try it every time? Wish him good luck.

Been there and done that in a Pontiac.

Not trying to bust your ballon, but your original topic was Competing in the Open Outlaw class and Pontiac would have a hellava time competing....... with Nitrous.

Maybe that's why JBP saw the light and moved on to turbos?
With Nitrous and open rules, bigger is better. I feel in Open CompetitionThe only equalizer Pontiac has it the Supercharger or turbo power adder.

Race Hard and Have Fun.

[Tom Vaught]

Ray,

I just pulled out one of my old shirts Jimmy Keen gave me that showed his sponsors in 1998.

Vortech Engineering, Wilson manifolds, Accufab, JDS Induction, Hal Suspension, Precision Gear, Ronnie Crawford Engines, Fel Pro Fuel Injection, SX fuel pumps, Chassis Engineering, Mickey Thompson, RKRE Race Engineering, Torco Fuels, ODDY Performance Race Engines, The Ford Motor Company, and Edelbrock.

(plus me) LOL!

Pat M. and Tony C. had three times the sponsors and
the "good old boy" connections.

One race we killed THREE of the best Vortech Superchargers in one week-end (over 10K in parts) and
that was small potatos.

You got an extra 10K you can throw away each week-end until you get some of those sponsors?

I wish you a lot of luck Ray, you will need it, as that will be the only way you could win a race against Tony or Pat.

Tom V.

[Ken French]

Don,
Are you claiming 400cfm as cast? I know what kind of work it takes to make a super chief flow 400cfm, and most people, by reading these posts, think it's easy to do. The work required to make that head flow 400cfm, @ .800 lift, is literally mind-boggling. When looking at your cylinder head, compared to a super chief, I don't see that much of a difference. How can you pick-up 70cfm, by just massaging that port. In order to pick-up another 60cfm, to make it flow 470cfm, in my super chief head, I would have to raise the port under the valve cover, or in other words: (not gonna' happen!)I would definetly be interested in buying your head, but if it doesn't have the capability of flowing those numbers, would you stand behind your claim, and refund my money? I don't mean to insult you, but I do know what is required to flow a head at 470cfm, and that would be a corporate BIG CHIEF head, with a good amount of work! Did you totally change your tiger head, from the pictures that you have on the web-sight? Ken

[Ray Cox]

I realize it will take atleast one magor player, to back some money, but I also think it would be very hard to hurt 10k in parts on a nitrous motor in a weekend. I guess it could happen, but if it did I think the person should rethink racing.

and like I said this is an idea currently there are really no heads available capable of performing at that level

one thing Im trying to say is that its more important to race smart than race money because you can never have enough money! money only helps you go fast it dosent make you go fast Im sure we would both agree on that.

the first thing I need to do is prove what I can do with nitrous in my current setup because I am personally not to happy with the current ET I know a lot of the readers on the forum think its fast, but I believe it is capable of a lot more I hit a bump in the road that is now being solved with the cam issue, (thanks to your help) these things are short term problems, somthing to remember is this combo has only 30 somthing passes on it most of which were during competition which it is harder to tune
also there are only 10 atempted nitrou passes on it this year with the chassis mods in short, last year I brought out a new combo that was not right for the car thus the 1.40 and 1.50 60 foot times we ran it like that to test and gather data for the two events last year then over the winter adjusted the chassis to fit the combo, by moving the weight nad other things and now this year we have already seen 2 60s in the mid 1.20s with the majority being in the low 1.30s
I hurt a piston in bradington that should not have been hurt but I tried to pedle the car for the win to go to the finals. then I hurt a valve in testing but by hurting those two fairly inexpensive parts, I came up with the sorce of the problem and as you know I am hoping you or a few otheres can help with the expertiece to correct it as I feel I have a bandaid on it now

I guess my point is, I took a motor that someone paid in excess of 25k for that could not make it last for more than one race and fixed it. they broke rods melted pistons sleved the block broke rockers and went 8.87 @ 3500 lbs

I dont know everything know one dose, but I do know how to anilize and adapt then take that info to people of knowlage like yourself to get the help I need to correct the problem I think this is far more valuable in racing than deep pockets

I cant do it alone, but with the help of people like You, Butler ,TTS Bop, All pontiac, Spotts , Dude and some others there is a chance

lets see if I can back some of this up at BG next week, this is only the third race and we are currently in fourth if the cam timing did what I believe it did I will be able to find more power at this event to put the car into the 40s for this class then the following week we can take out some weight for the nsca race. remember all the runs this year have been at 3475. I think Dude rex and otheres will vouch for all the weight that is currently bolted into the car. I am looking forward to taking 250+ pounds out!
like I said over the winter 8 teens or 8.0s by the end of the year with the posibility of a high 7

[Hot Rod]

Guys,
Just about every big time racer started out with nothing.... Sponsors like winners and like evenmore strong competitors... Ray always seem to have a can do attitude and it appears that he keeps on trucking along even though he knows inside that the competition has a edge....
Ray keep on plugging along and keep a positive attitude like you have and good things will come to you....

Oh I agree with Tom marry a rich woman that would be a good start.....

Rodney

[slowbird]

Does DCI have a web site?

[Ken French]

http:http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...0310pon_heads/ If this doesn't work, put tiger heads in your search engine, and you'll find the websight.

[Scott Rex]

Good post Ken.

Here is the most confusing part of the Tiger Heads story. The heads are available with D ports so "racers stepping up from D-ports won't have to incur the cost of new headers as well."

Someone will spend roughly $7000 on race heads, but not use a set of race headers?

Costs as listed in the DCI catalog:

Standard heads $5550.00
Raised ports $5850.00

Adapter plates required to use Victor intake $???
Rocker shaft system required (T&D or similar) $1000.00

I would love to do a back to back dyno or dragstrip test of the Tiger heads against my Super Chiefs! I learned a long time ago that judging a head by flow bench numbers alone is a big mistake.

(bottom head) TIGER HEAD WITH D PORT AND ROUND EXHAUST

[Banditone]

Great pic SCOTT-those TIGER exhaust ports look good .Like the BANDIT would say--a straight shot to the ALABAMA STATE LINE .

[GTOGEORGE]

Yea...............what Scott said!

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hot Rod:
Guys,
Just about every big time racer started out with nothing.... Sponsors like winners and like evenmore strong competitors... Ray always seem to have a can do attitude and it appears that he keeps on trucking along even though he knows inside that the competition has a edge....
Ray keep on plugging along and keep a positive attitude like you have and good things will come to you....

Oh I agree with Tom marry a rich woman that would be a good start.....

Rodney <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the encuragment Hotrod!

[J.C.you]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken Brewer:
I suggest you hurry Don! As there is another 400cfm head coming out!!!
Be Cool, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who else is coming out with the big flow heads?

[Tom Vaught]

Ray,

I am one of your biggest fans and also one of your "reality check" friends.

I asked the same questions when I was in Marty Palbykin's team.

Rodney Butler has been able to get deals (due to the family business) and I have sent people his way to help him, (like the Turbonetics deal). Dave Austin,
Turbonetics Turbo Geru, is one of my best friends. I have known Brad, (the general manager of Turbonetics, George Spears (of Spearco intercoolers) and Bob Keller
(former owner of Turbonetics) from doing Ford work with them.

Keep trying to develop relationships with people (as you have done) and work the sponsorship side as much as you can. Everytime you talk to someone, ask if they
know anyone who likes racing and race cars. Sponsorship money
may come from formerly strange sources like in NASCAR with the Viagra deal.

Agree that it is hard to kill $10,000 in NOS equipment
(even taking out all of the pistons, rods, and crank
but a fast supercharger car can do it if you have some sabotage like we did from one of Bill's fans. Billy
was ready to kill the guy (if he found him) as he is tight with the Keen's and likes to win fair and square.
(We lost three superchargers due to that idiot before we found the chrome nut in the last one).

Tom V.

[Bud Lyons]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it if you have some sabotage like we did from one of Bill's fans. Billy
was ready to kill the guy (if he found him) as he is tight with the Keen's and likes to win fair and square.
(We lost three superchargers due to that idiot before we found the chrome nut in the last one).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tom, Is this a story you could tell in detail? I never heard this one.

[Junkyard Dog]

Yes, we'd like to hear that!

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Vaught:
Ray,

I am one of your biggest fans and also one of your "reality check" friends.

I asked the same questions when I was in Marty Palbykin's team.

Rodney Butler has been able to get deals (due to the family business) and I have sent people his way to help him, (like the Turbonetics deal). Dave Austin,
Turbonetics Turbo Geru, is one of my best friends. I have known Brad, (the general manager of Turbonetics, George Spears (of Spearco intercoolers) and Bob Keller
(former owner of Turbonetics) from doing Ford work with them.

Keep trying to develop relationships with people (as you have done) and work the sponsorship side as much as you can. Everytime you talk to someone, ask if they
know anyone who likes racing and race cars. Sponsorship money
may come from formerly strange sources like in NASCAR with the Viagra deal.

Agree that it is hard to kill $10,000 in NOS equipment
(even taking out all of the pistons, rods, and crank
but a fast supercharger car can do it if you have some sabotage like we did from one of Bill's fans. Billy
was ready to kill the guy (if he found him) as he is tight with the Keen's and likes to win fair and square.
(We lost three superchargers due to that idiot before we found the chrome nut in the last one).

Tom V. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tom that is a very different senaryo, and I do worry about it a lot. last year at memphis there was a car stolen in the pits a few hundred feet from my car, during a rain delay while we all stood there, but nobody noticed.

just last week a very close freind here where I live loaded every thing up on the thursday before atco, finished about 3am and went home to sleep then returned at 6am to find the trailer and all contents gone! car 4 wheelers tools nitrous bottles everything.

the car is not insured they think everything else might be, but it is still a big set back.

most people dont relize the envestment in the perifial equipment. for xeample the fogger system on my car was only 900.00 but all the bottles assorted jets and parts to make the car go rounds and adjust to conditions was probably 5,000.00 then add in my spare parts inventory ask spotts about that he was in the trailer last week.
Spare Rods pistons crank Trans driveshaft gear sets......... and most of the spares are in duplicate one set for the motor in the car and the other for the spare motor. thats why my trailer wll never be in a motel or rarly left at the track, the hit on somthing like that would be devistating.

I do agree with you on the reality check, and I need those from time to time next year will probably not be the year, but if I listed to all the reality checks from mmy other group of freinds, the chevy crowd we wouldnt be having this conversation because they said I couldnt go fast with a pontiac, it sure is cool to have them scratching there heads now!
I really hope we continue this conversation in about a month, because I feel like I have found the scorce of the strugle this year I personaly thought the car would have been further along than it is, but some times the setbacks slow you down for a bit the key is to learn from those and bounce back stronger.
one small point the first run on this combo was at columbus last year 8.79 this last week it went 8.64 with the exact same tuneup in it just by doing some tweeking. 60s last year were 1.40s and 50s this year they are consistant low 30s with the last two in the mid 20s and I havent even bought new tires they are from last year.
theres a lot of room for improvment here,
motor,chassis,tires, DRIVER, TUNER, 2nd and 3rd stages of nitrous, Intake, Linco ....... the list is long

one thing is for sure even if the car couldnt win but only qaulify in the top 5 in Pro street
it would Prove the integrity of the IA block, the BOP belt drive, Brand X Cylinder heads and whatever other parts are on the car, so the end result would be the sponsors selling parts and if we could win then it would be all the better.
one thing is for sure if it werent for the people on this board like Tom V, P Dude, Rex, Spots and every other person that shares there knowlage here, it wouldnt be as possible as it is. the chassis shop here in town is still talking about the "pontiac support" that I and mike Davis recieved in lousiana at the first race. another car form the same shop raced in my class, we used his truck and my trailer and put his mustang in with my car. they were talking the hole time about puting me on the trailer the hole time the funny part is I never made even an 1/8 mile pass, but they saw and heard it leave the line and aperently are not so sure of there chances because they never said another word about putting it on the trailer. one of there crew actually has started volentering to come and help me at the track sying we know what it takes to go racing and he could learn more with the pontiac crew than he did with the ford crew. they cant figure out how I pulled in alone and ended up with 6 or so people wrenchen on the car thanks to Herb, TTS Mike Davis nad mean Ken they are a little scared of the pontiac comunity at the moment! the best part was when Mike blew a trans, and within hours it was out apart and on its way o rebuild, then back in the car and going rounds by morning thanks to TTS ! I am fairly sure Paul will sell one or two transmisions from that incedent because the guys with me in the mustang crew noticed, as did the whites pit stop team next door

why am I rambling like this? stay tuned BG is a week away lets see if I can back up the smac!!!!

[meanken]

Oh man, Ray, It seems like just yesterday we ere waking everyone up at Belle Rose.
Sure wish we lived closer together, I'd be there all the time. I think you can back it up.
By the way, I have a couple of really nice "Dudes house of pain" T shirts, I need one of yours to hang with it.