Readers point out the obvious about the Car and Driver Mustang vs GTO controversy - Page 3 - PY Online Forums

rabon008 · #41 03-10-2005, 07:48 PM

Personally, I prefer this angle for pictures of the scoops (sans that awful white stuff though!).

HUMBLER · #42 03-11-2005, 06:50 AM

To think I just had my hood painted for $350 because of a dent and could have the 05 hood, grill for 600 I hear. Man, did I screw that up...!

pont3 · #43 03-11-2005, 09:30 AM

From looking at the pictures I initially thought I preferred the non-scoop version but after seeing it in person, I'm going to upgrade my '04 with it. It's really sharp. Again, people should see the car in person because pictures do not accurately reflect it.

HUMBLER · #44 03-11-2005, 10:43 AM

The 05 hood is definatly sweet, there was a Quicksilver at the dealer recently... Very nice.

charlzm · #45 03-11-2005, 11:25 AM

RE: The C&D article:

When the numbers are added up, the GTO was ahead of the Mustang by X points. To make sure the Mustang won, they added a subjective "gotta have it" factor that was X+1 point, giving the Mustang a one point victory.

That's bulls**t.

If they preferred the Mustang but couldn't think of any way to make it win through testing results, they should have just said in a sidebar or in the last few paragraphs that, even though the numbers show the GTO the winner, there is some frisson from driving the Mustang, some coolness that's undefinable, that they prefer.

That would have been honest and revealed the true nature of this tests, which is determine which car is coolest to drive.

The magazine says the Mustang is cooler than the GTO. Some here might agree.

red70goat · #46 03-11-2005, 11:44 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabon:
Hoods scoops or no is an obvious personal preference thing so I can see that some would dislike them. QUOTE]

>>> That was one of my first initial gripes about the 04 when it came out: No scoops. But the shape of the car seems to look better without them, however I haven't seen one with scoops in "person" yet.

David Jones · #47 03-11-2005, 11:44 AM

Look back thru the archives name caller. I don't like either car.

red70goat · #48 03-11-2005, 12:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlzm:

They say the Mustang is cooler than the GTO. Some trolls here.....might agree. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, the members of the GM Monaro glee club elite show their true colors. If you like BMWs, or the Stang, or anything other than the GM Monaro that somehow makes you a troll.

Mr_Gee_ Idunno and Charlzm hard at work on their car.

HUMBLER · #49 03-11-2005, 12:14 PM

You're right "Troll" should only be reserved for you. Not just anyone who doesn't like our beloved Pontiac.

red70goat · #50 03-11-2005, 12:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
You're right "Troll" should only be reserved for you. Not just anyone who doesn't like our beloved Pontiac. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps if it really was a Pontiac ( external of whatever VIN GM slaps on it )then perhaps it would be more embraceable.

charlzm · #51 03-11-2005, 01:36 PM

RE: name calling -

A troll is someone who goes around looking for threads in which he/she can post inflammatory posts just for the sake of getting someone's goat. In this regard I'm just as guilty as anyone else here. Of course, you could draw a distinction if you like, taking frequency and content into account, but why bother? A troll's a troll.

Out of respect for anyone who was offended, even in the slightest, I have deleted the last line of my previous post. Unlike some, I feel regret when I have done something childish. I apologize that I got sucked into name-calling.

And as far as cars "really" being a Pontiac... Pontiac does not exist. It is dead. Period. All GM vehicles, regardless of their names, are GM vehicles. And I frankly couldn't care less what GM decides to call one of its cars. I happen to like the Pontiac styling the best of the GM lines, although Cadillacs have significantly improved and the upcoming Saturns are getting my attention with forward-looking styling that has almost nothing to do with their "roots".

On the advice of some other members, I checked out LS1GTO and found it to be a much better site for discussion of the new GTO; less name-calling (yes, I'm guilty as charged). I'm also signed up at Club GP for my current ride, a 1998 Grand Prix (for a list of mods and work I've done or had done, check out the link to my "homepage" on my member profile). This should dispel any thought that I don't know much about cars or how to work on my "wreck".

That site also has an elevated level of discussion. I've never felt the need to name-call there. I don't get frustrated enough with the members there. See, at sites like those, the members don't fixate on one little part of a post and go off about it; they read the whole message and tend to write thoughtful replies, for the most part.

So, all you guys who love to live in the distant past of the 60's, back in the "glory days", and drive your relics and trash talk new and improved stuff, have fun.

I might still read the threads here from time to time, but I'm done posting. See ya.

RJGTO67 · #52 03-11-2005, 07:01 PM

Amen, Charlzm, I agree with you. However, Rabon, who has less info than anybody in his profile, is obviously the troll of the year and probably owns nothing but an old Chebby Cabalier!!

Mr_GTO · #53 03-11-2005, 07:11 PM

Still no pictures of his cars from Watza.

I'll take a 400hp Cavalier any day of the week. Sure does suprise the Civics.

red70goat · #54 03-11-2005, 07:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RJGTO67:
.... Rabon, who has less info than anybody in his profile, is obviously the troll of the year ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2nd only to Mr_Gee_ Idunno.

Bob Hall · #55 03-11-2005, 09:31 PM

Gentlemen (and for some I use the term loosely),

On Tuesday, I saw my first 05 in 'person'. From my personal point of view, pics of the hood scoops do not do it any justice. I like the 05 better then the 04. As for performance, I can only attest to the performance of the 04. A few months ago, NickV took me out for a ride in his. I fell in love with the car just from sitting in the passengers seat. I would love to find out how an 05 feels, but I do not want to just go to a dealer and waste the salesperson's time just for a joyride since I'm not in the market for a new car.
#1, I can't afford a new car right now.
#2, I just have trouble accepting cars (any car) are selling for $25k or more.

I would suggest that some of the detractors should find a way to drive or ride in the car to experience it. I feel they would have a better appreciation of the car.

As for the styling being similar to other cars on the road, times haven't changed. Cars from the 60s, 70s, and 80s all looked similar also. Personally, my favorite cars are the GM A/G bodies. All of them. They all looked similar.

Regards,
Bob

Jeff R · #56 03-11-2005, 10:11 PM

Well said Charizm! I enjoy PY forums a great deal, but "2004 GTO Tech & Chat" probably needs to go. It doesn't fit in well with the other forums, it's ceased to have much useful information and almost every thread turns into some sort of childish argument. Maybe PY should just kill this forum altogether or post a link to LS1GTO.com in its place. The folks over at LS1GTO.com are for the most part friendly, knowledgable and supportive of other members...much like the folks in every other PY forum except this one. Yes, there are the occasional Mustang or ricer trolls, but LS1GTO's members generally have the maturity to ignore them and not get into pissing contests and name calling. To Charizm's point, there hasn't been a true Pontiac built in a long, long time. Pontiac is now just a brand name under which GM markets certain models, and therein lies the root of the problem with this particular forum. Many Pontiac enthusiasts are stuck in the past and can't stand newer non-pontiac-motor cars being called Pontiac (GTO or otherwise). Whether "2004 GTO Tech & Chat" lasts or not I will continue to treat it just like I treat any other PY forum, posting on-topic and only if/when I have something worthwhile to contribute.

Trace · #57 03-12-2005, 02:51 AM

Wow, just popped back to this forum tonight for the first time in awhile - really is sad. Kinda like when you live in a nice neighborhood & a few low-lifes move in & screw it up. Nice thing is I don't have to put up with it, too many good forums to spend my time in. Bye all...

Mr_GTO · #58 03-12-2005, 05:10 AM

Bob Hall, good review. Remember, LS1's are easy to mod. Hell a dealer near me has a leftover 04 with a sunroof for $24K. A GM Dealer near you is selling retrofit parts to make the 04 look like a 05 and for short money. Then if you wanted LS2 kind of performance, a simple camshaft change would cure that.

pont3 · #59 03-12-2005, 09:09 PM

Guys, don't let the negatives here run you away. Although there are only a few who appreciate this forum a need remains for its existence. While I agree that any new threads on the New GTO are quickly contaminated, the beauty of it is the opposing views. Aside from a few total jerks, the vast majority of the members exercise their home training in that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. Some, who apparently had no home training frequently practice their comedic skills or are suffering from low self esteem, use this forum as an opportunity make themselves feel superior. It's no secret that the New GTO is not appreciated here, and personally, that does not bother me. They offer an opposing view to ours and I really feel that is necessary. 90% of all the vehicles I have owned since 1976 have been Pontiacs and in my mind, the new GTO is just as much a Pontiac as any of them. It may not contain Pontiac DNA, but what exactly defines a Pontiac nowadays?

Most of the members realized that some of the comments were offensive and refrained from further posting. Others seem to thrive belittling what some thought was great. But to this end, I believe, for the most part, all of this is needed, from both sides, for Pontiac to ultimately build the GTO we ALL can be proud of.

I love my '04 and will likely get an '05 also and I will proudly cruise even if I'm the only one doing so. I think for myself and when others offer useful input, I use it. Otherwise, I do what makes me happy.

GM can thank us for accepting their first attempt at bringing back a legend, and thank the haters for having to put forth more effort to produce a more widely accepted future model.

If you notice, all the bashing comes from those who don't own one and many who have never even driven one. How can they possibly know? All of the so-called shortcomings cited by the mags are in areas that are unimportant or marginally bested in a comparison.

Let's keep this forum going and view "hater" comments and posts as motivation for an improved future model. Personally, there's nothing they can say that will diminish my appreciation for the existence of this car. I visit and post in other forums on this board and there are GOOD people here!!

Tiberius · #60 03-12-2005, 11:06 PM

Power of that GTO is great. They showed a segment on Dicovery Channel or TLC last week I can't remember.. What I do remember is that thing Laying rubber, and they were drifting with the car. The car sounded like a Beast from Hell!! RWD/6SP/LS2 and price not too bad.. Ya the Mustang looks okay.. The front only.. the Back end looks like Kife.. LOL