[Bill Eveland]

I thought I mentioned the switch in the ignition first? Don't I get the $20? I guess I should have asked for money too LOL.

["Guy]

My car starts the same way...but otherwise hauls a** and runs perfect.
When you run alot of timing like I do....during a hot start hold the gas pedal down a 1/4. This relieves pressure during start and it will not let the starter drag. Just easier on everything!
Guy

[76GP]

BTW, the battery installed is a 650!

OK Bill, I got $20 coming your way as well!

[76GP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Guy,mn.usa:
My car starts the same way...but otherwise hauls a** and runs perfect.
When you run alot of timing like I do....during a hot start hold the gas pedal down a 1/4. This relieves pressure during start and it will not let the starter drag. Just easier on everything!
Guy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll try that!

Lot's of good ideas here, unfortunately I won't get to try them until the weekend when I get time to work on the car.

Another thing I want to try is to back off on the timing to about 12 degrees BTDC. That's what the manual transmission cars are set at. I wonder why that is?

["Guy]

76gp, I would not back out of timing! In fact take the car out for run and advance the distributor until it pings under load...then take 4 degrees advance out after that. Timing should be set perfect! Every car/motor is different, some like more advance. It will idle better, make more vacuum and run better up top! And then give her 1/4 pedal when you start it...it won't drag. 20.00 hmmmm, 120.00 more like it....some guys pay 500.00
Guy

[76GP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Guy,mn.usa:
76gp, I would not back out of timing! In fact take the car out for run and advance the distributor until it pings under load...then take 4 degrees advance out after that. Timing should be set perfect! Every car/motor is different, some like more advance. It will idle better, make more vacuum and run better up top! And then give her 1/4 pedal when you start it...it won't drag. 20.00 hmmmm, 120.00 more like it....some guys pay 500.00
Guy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I understand what your saying and I agree with that philosophy but maybe you can help in another area. I notice the more advance I put in the faster the engine runs. It's at the point now where the throttle linkage is no longer on the idle screw stop. It's backed all the way out and the engine idles at about 800 rpm. Messing with the mixture screws doesn't do anything except cause it to stumble as I turn them in. In fact, they are out about 5 turns. Seems to be where the engine runs the smoothest. Do you think that I might have another problem here? Maybe a vacumm leak in the intake somewhere? I was real careful when I bolted the intake down and torqued the bolts in a criss cross pattern in 10 lb increments. I have a new carb to manifold gasket and all the rubber hoses are new. As it stands right now, I pull about 16" at idle. Someone told me that Pontiac engines are hard to get to idle smoothly. I'm beginning to think maybe there is some truth to that statement.

[kmccrystal]

I have the same hot start problem. I talked to an "old-timer", he said GMs were notorious for weak starter solenoids. So I'm going to swap mine out soon. Also check the battery cable while you are down there.

The only time I have had problems with too much initial advance effecting the starting was when the initial was way, way too much. The initial was so much that the car would stall coming off of idle. IMHO, leave the initial alone. It is not that bad.

As for smooth idle and Pontiacs, that person is full of s...!

[Habanero]

I'd just thought I'd add a note,,, the 455 that I am rebuilding now, the previous machine shop,( needless to say is out of business now ), had to replace the heads. and they gave me a set of 6x heads but I did not notice that they were 6x-8 and 6x-4 the chamber volume was not the same and the motor had a real hard starting problem, vibrations and loos of power. It lasted about 30,000 miles and started knocking. After pulling the motor apart I then found that the heads were not the same. Just thought I'd post this from experience with a sorry machine shop and my lack of prior knowledge of 4x and 6x heads.

[bonnevista]

When I picked up my '72 Grand Ville 3 years ago, I was surprised to see how thin the factory battery cables were. And of course, you guessed it, it was hard to crank the 455 when hot. I then replaced the factory cables with welding cable that was about as thick as my thumb and the problem went away. It'll spin like a top on a 100 deg day - even with the A/C switched on. This may (or may not) solve your problem, but good quality cables, fittings and grounding is very important.

["Guy]

Gp76, Sounds like the mechanical advance in your distributor is advancing just below idle(800/1000rpm). The mechanical advance should never just start coming in at idle it has to be just above! I donot think you have a vacuum leak...To tune this car right you have to start with the distrubtor. Have a "good" shop that curves distributors put the right curve for your build of "your" car. They'll ask for all engine specs(cam/carb/compression/headers/etc.),weight of the car, gear ratio,auto or stick, and what you want to do with it(drag race/cruise). Anyway you have to have this right first before anything else can be tuned! Who knows some have made another 40hp just getting this right! After you get that done give me a call...I'll help you thru the rest.

[76GP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Guy,mn.usa:
Gp76, Sounds like the mechanical advance in your distributor is advancing just below idle(800/1000rpm). The mechanical advance should never just start coming in at idle it has to be just above! I donot think you have a vacuum leak...To tune this car right you have to start with the distrubtor. Have a "good" shop that curves distributors put the right curve for your build of "your" car. They'll ask for all engine specs(cam/carb/compression/headers/etc.),weight of the car, gear ratio,auto or stick, and what you want to do with it(drag race/cruise). Anyway you have to have this right first before anything else can be tuned! Who knows some have made another 40hp just getting this right! After you get that done give me a call...I'll help you thru the rest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, I'll see if the shop that rebuilt my engine can check the distributor curve.

[Jerry H.]

I had exactly the same problem with a 65 Catalina I recently bought. I had a repro Battery with the repro cables on it. I thought they might be the problem. I took it to my local auto electric shop, which is excellent. 1 hour and $75 later, they had taken off the original stater, replaced and rebuilt it to hi-torque standards and installed a high heat solenoid. It completely solved the problem!

[RRF]

Before you get carried away...

First remove and inspect the battery cables. Flex the cable to check for stiffness which will indicate corrosion under the wire jacket. Replace with new cables if they are old.

[76GP]

Update...

I removed all the cables and the starter from the block. Cleaned all the connections with a wire brush and the car turns over much faster when hot now. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Also, I would like to express my feelings on what a wonderful resource this forum is for it's wealth of valuable information. Because of this forum, I was able to solve another problem I had with the way the car idled. Come to find out, I had a vacuum leak at the EGR valve. I replaced the gasket and tuned the carb and the car is running great! It's still a slug because of it's 185 hp engine but it doesn't hesitate or stumble anymore!

How did I find the problem you ask? I did a search on the forum and saw a thread where you can put your hand over the carb and if the engine speeds up it means a vacuum leak! Makes sense, I did and it did! I read another thread where you can take a piece of vacuum hose and put to your ear and poke around to listen for leaks. Well, I'm here to tell you that method works like a champ! When I got close to the EGR valve it sounded like it was going to suck my ear drum out! I was so elated to find the problem so easily after being enlightened by info off of this forum. I have to admit, I played around with the car for two weeks trying different things to find out why it was idling so poorly.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the information you provide to less experienced people like myself.

[dwarf]

In the early 70's I had the same problem with my 69 Judge. I had rebuilt the engine. Bored 30 over, balanced, new everything. It turned out to be a electrical problem in starting circuit.
They always say 90% of your problems are electrical.
I removerd the starter and found the brushes bad. I cleaned up the armature, installed new brushes. Problem solved.
I never had any more problems with that engine because 6 months later I grenaded it.

[YVEYANT]

I had this same issue with my 65 GTO. I tried everything, changed the starter, battery, cables, grounds, plugs, cap, points and solenoid. What finally did the trick... I instlalled a Jegs remote starter solenoid that mounts on the firewall. It provides a more powerful start and takes no heat. About $24.00 from Jegs or Summit. Even if you solved your issue this is a great item to have. Anthony