Tell Bob Lutz what you think of the GTO - Page 9 - PY Online Forums

red70goat · #**161** 02-28-2005, 09:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:

" you'll be the one send me the Ben Franklin."
>>> Perhaps, but I don't think so. The main stream financial press is already touting the demise of Pontiacs' current line up. Lutz is an idiot.

" ..And FYI, the Jazz have ALWAYS SUCKED..."
>>> That doesn't bother me. I'm not a fan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Demise of Pontiac's lineup? LOL, they don't know what they are talking about." (QUOTE]

Yeah , you're right. MT certainly is the definative authority on corporate finance and forecasting. 52 week range of GMs stock going from $50.04 to $35.85. Interesting Barrons chose a Pontiac for their cover. Per Bob Lutz: " If you don't have an exciting, stimulating, world class product you will fail." Sounds like somebody just woke up from their nap. He goes on: " If the dogs aren't eating the dog food, nothing else matters." Dogs? Dog food? Is that how he describes the GM consumer base and products? No wonder everything he touches tanks.

Mr_GTO · #**162** 02-28-2005, 11:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:

Yeah , you're right. MT certainly is the definative authority on corporate finance and forecasting. 52 week range of GMs stock going from $50.04 to $35.85. Interesting Barrons chose a Pontiac for their cover. Per Bob Lutz: " If you don't have an exciting, stimulating, world class product you will fail." Sounds like somebody just woke up from their nap. He goes on: " If the dogs aren't eating the dog food, nothing else matters." Dogs? Dog food? Is that how he describes the GM consumer base and products? No wonder everything he touches tanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, GM's stock isn't dependant on Pontiac doing well you dope.

What exactly has Lutz touched that has failed? Please, product by product.

And I don't think he was refering to Pontiac customers as dogs, it's called figure of speech. You being a lawyer, I would have thought you would have known that. Guess not.

charlzm · #**163** 02-28-2005, 12:27 PM

Rabon said:
1) The closest vehicles in styling to the GTO rear are produced by BMW. Coincidentaly (or not), they also have a split grille and the GTO interior styling cues are rather similar.

I say:
I don't see a lot of BMW in the GTO. I do see some Volvo C70...

red70goat · #**164** 02-28-2005, 12:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:

Yeah , you're right. MT certainly is the definative authority on corporate finance and forecasting. 52 week range of GMs stock going from $50.04 to $35.85. Interesting Barrons chose a Pontiac for their cover. Per Bob Lutz: " If you don't have an exciting, stimulating, world class product you will fail." Sounds like somebody just woke up from their nap. He goes on: " If the dogs aren't eating the dog food, nothing else matters." Dogs? Dog food? Is that how he describes the GM consumer base and products? No wonder everything he touches tanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, GM's stock isn't dependant on Pontiac doing well you dope.

>>> Yeah you're right. I guess Pontiac being down 76% has nothing to do with GM, or that Barrons chose to use a Pontiac on their cover.

What exactly has Lutz touched that has failed? Please, product by product.

>>> GTO for starters. Volume sold vs MSRP...what a joke. Let's not forget this is the genius who wanted to nix the Firebird and Camaro. The there's his f-ups @ Chrysler.

And I don't think he was refering to Pontiac customers as dogs, it's called figure of speech. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Call it what you will. This man is blatanly out of touch with the consumer. Barrons Feb 28th : " GMs Challenge: So Tell us Mr. Lutz, can you design cars that people really want to buy?" Apparantly not. I'll take that $100.00 in money order form only please.

charlzm · #**165** 02-28-2005, 12:30 PM

Volvo from the rear, where it really bears a resemblance to the US version Monaro:

charlzm · #**166** 02-28-2005, 12:33 PM

And of course, the May 2004 Motor Trend gave us these shots to ponder...

charlzm · #**167** 02-28-2005, 12:41 PM

Even the Honda Accord coupe has the same kinda thang going on...

charlzm · #**168** 02-28-2005, 12:47 PM

But really, the Cavalier doesn't bear all that much resemblance... Check it out -

The C pillars are very thin, the taillights have a very 90's style that goes all the way across the trunk, the body sides are slightly concave with a crease near the rear wheel well.

Of course, these are styling cues instead of design, but basically, any coupe will be designed more or less along these lines. Since everyting is wind-tunnel tested to death these days, the wedge shape with smooth surfaces is about the slipperiest form that carmakers (Volvo, BMW, Holden, Chevy, Mercedes, Honda, etc...) can put on the road.

Come on, does this really look like the GTO/Monaro? I'd mistake it for a previous gen Mitsubishi Eclipse more easily...

rabon008 · #**169** 02-28-2005, 01:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charlzm:
But really, the Cavalier doesn't bear all that much resemblance... Check it out -

The C pillars are very thin, the taillights have a very 90's style that goes all the way across the trunk, the body sides are slightly concave with a crease near the rear wheel well.

Of course, these are styling cues instead of design, but basically, any coupe will be designed more or less along these lines. Since everyting is wind-tunnel tested to death these days, the wedge shape with smooth surfaces is about the slipperiest form that carmakers (Volvo, BMW, Holden, Chevy, Mercedes, Honda, etc...) can put on the road.

Come on, does this really look like the GTO/Monaro? I'd mistake it for a previous gen Mitsubishi Eclipse more easily... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's my point. The Volvo (in your view) and the BMW (in my view) are both good company. And "whatza" didn't even realize that the pictured BMW was not an import. But he also confuses the Cavalier with a GTO so I don't expect too much from him.

red70goat · #**170** 02-28-2005, 02:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charlzm:
But really, the Cavalier doesn't bear all that much resemblance... Check it out -

The C pillars are very thin, the taillights have a very 90's style that goes all the way across the trunk, the body sides are slightly concave with a crease near the rear wheel well.

Of course, these are styling cues instead of design, but basically, any coupe will be designed more or less along these lines. Since everyting is wind-tunnel tested to death these days, the wedge shape with smooth surfaces is about the slipperiest form that carmakers (Volvo, BMW, Holden, Chevy, Mercedes, Honda, etc...) can put on the road.

Come on, does this really look like the GTO/Monaro? I'd mistake it for a previous gen Mitsubishi Eclipse more easily... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's my point. The Volvo (in your view) and the BMW (in my view) are both good company. QUOTE]

Again, Why would you want your GTO to look like a BMW, Volvo or any other car other than a GTO? I'll give you credit for making the similarities to a '70, however, not blatant as you claim. I don't believe there are too many BMW & Volvo owners salivating to trade their cars in on a GM Monaro despite Lutzs' backpeddling claim to the contrary. His claim that in it's peak of popularity people didn't buy the GTO for it's unique looks, but rather the sound and performance, is pathetic at best.

HUMBLER · #**171** 02-28-2005, 02:38 PM

The sound and performance, exactly!

pont3 · #**172** 02-28-2005, 05:41 PM

The GTO has reeled in more BMW and Volvo owners than you might expect. "MOST" BMW, Volvo and Mercedes owners buy brand not style and wouldn't buy a Pontiac regardless of what it looked like or how it performed because if they did, there are many stylish non-BMW, Volvo, Mercedes alternatives. The GTO may never be what you consider a "GTO", but it is what it is and you can either become a part of the excitement or remain a constantly griping onlooker. I didn't quote anyone on this response cause they know who they are.

charlzm · #**173** 03-01-2005, 02:19 AM

By the way, the point I was trying to make by posting all those pictures is that the GTO/Monaro has more in common with luxury cars (volvo & Mercedes, specifically) than it does with a Cavalier or a Grand Am.

For the record: I love the new GTO. But I could love it just a tad more...

red70goat · #**174** 03-01-2005, 10:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
The sound and performance, exactly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I guess the GM Monaro is the only car that runs in the 13's or has the sound of a V8.

So why bother with giving it a distinctive GTO look and stance....

HUMBLER · #**175** 03-02-2005, 09:06 AM

rabon008 · #**176** 03-02-2005, 10:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
The sound and performance, exactly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I guess the GM Monaro is the only car that runs in the 13's or has the sound of a V8.

So why bother with giving it a distinctive GTO look and stance.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, guess DeLorean had a bad idea. It was wrong to re-badge this car...

rabon008 · #**177** 03-02-2005, 10:02 PM

Into this one...

rabon008 · #**178** 03-02-2005, 10:06 PM

I suppose he could have called it a Tempest SS. Would have received less abuse from Ferrari enthusiasts anyway.

red70goat · #**179** 03-03-2005, 09:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
The sound and performance, exactly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I guess the GM Monaro is the only car that runs in the 13's or has the sound of a V8.

So why bother with giving it a distinctive GTO look and stance.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, guess DeLorean had a bad idea. It was wrong to re-badge this car... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a Pontiac Jonny Boy rebadged right? Nothing wrong with rebadging a Pontiac as a Pontiac and then stuffing a bad ass Pontiac motor in it. Too bad the same couldn't be said for the 04. The old tired argument of what happened 40 years ago as a valid comparison just doesn't wash.

rabon008 · #**180** 03-03-2005, 09:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
The sound and performance, exactly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I guess the GM Monaro is the only car that runs in the 13's or has the sound of a V8.

So why bother with giving it a distinctive GTO look and stance.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, guess DeLorean had a bad idea. It was wrong to re-badge this car... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a Pontiac Jonny Boy rebadged right? Nothing wrong with rebadging a Pontiac as a Pontiac and then stuffing a bad ass Pontiac motor in it. Too bad the same couldn't be said for the 04. The old tired argument of what happened 40 years ago as a valid comparison just doesn't wash. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Well, the Tempest pictured was a four door. Today, Pontiac has taken a world-class car (namely the TWO DOOR Monaro) and re-badged it as a GTO. I agree, it wouldn't have washed to take a '04 Grand AM or GP and badge it as a GTO, even with a big V8 (considering FWD, etc.). As you implied, the world has changed in the last 40 years and what Pontiac did in introducing the new GTO makes more sense today.