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Rick Lightfoot · 07-22-2002, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goatman:
Maybe with the throttle half open.........no, that's right, at E-town last year, I went 12's with the throttle only opening half way. Child's play, boy.

Some wish they had that problem. Jealousy will get you no where Lil' Ricky..............

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Thats truly believable..

Rick Lightfoot · 07-22-2002, 10:45 PM

Back to the topic...The 7 questions (still unanswered):

What crankshaft, bearings and rods were used?
What brand/model oil pump was used?
What were the main/rod bearing clearances?
What were the rod side clearances?

If it's an oil contamination failure, why didn't the oil filter pick up the particles first?

If it's an oil contamination failure, why was only one journal damaged?

Who assembled the short block?

You brought it up, Bruce. Now face the music.

PONTIAC DUDE · 07-23-2002, 07:37 AM

Not a pump problem with the description you have given.

The piece was probably gone before assembly, but you never noticed it, as you didn't have a problem looking for things during Freshening.

If it's not as bad as you thought, then why not fix and go?

Hang it there, Pontiacs are a breed of their own.

Hot Rod · 07-23-2002, 07:41 AM

Rick,
I'm not going to take sides here, but Bruce has decided to share with the members what's going on with his engine, he's the one that is out the money and the parts and the time! Everybody has a beef with somebody sometime in there life. But this is not the time or the place to inject your personal feelings for all of us to see.
I do not believe that Bruce is staying awake at night trying to figure out why his engine failed. When he finds out he will let us know, and if he so chooses he will tell the story.
Thats his business not yours, or mine or anybody elses just his.

You wonder why there is so misinformation out there, and it's because the people that know what's going on will not waist there time posting knowing full will that someone is going to hammer them that may of may not know what the hell they are talking about. I want to know pretty much the same questions that you do, but I am sure that we both have completely different reasons for that information. Ball busting and banter has it's place but not everyplace and not all of the time. I think I am speaking for quite a few people here, please take the BS to a Private forum, and let the people that truly would like to help and learn may do so.

And if you feel that I have said anything here that was unjust please do so, and I will be happy to listen to anything you have to say, but please send to me personally at my e-mail address [email protected] as the rest of the PY doesn't really want to see it!

Rodney

[ July 23, 2002, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Hot Rod ]

SCOTT ESTERLE · 07-23-2002, 07:55 AM

Well said.

Goatman · 07-23-2002, 08:09 AM

Dude, I need to take a step back. I rushed things the last couple of months and it bit me. It hasn't been "fun" for me the past couple of months and that's not why I got into this. I need a break and I think a little change in combinations will be a good thing. I need time to get the EFI straight and finish my car the way I want it to be. It sucks that I'm missing the MG and Norwalk events, but I'd rather do that and keep my sanity then get so disgusted that I sell off all my stuff and get out for good.

Rodney, thank you.

[ July 23, 2002, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Goatman ]

Bud Lyons · 07-23-2002, 10:09 AM

Bruce, Are you still coming to MG and Norwalk even without a car?

Old Man Taylor · 07-23-2002, 10:23 AM

Hot Rod - Well said, my sentiments exactly.

Goatman · 07-23-2002, 11:25 AM

Bud, not sure on MG. I will be at Norwalk, as I have given my word to drop off some FREE parts to people and also to pick up some parts that I have bought in the last couple of months.

I will see you there.

pontiaddict · 07-23-2002, 11:36 AM

Rodney, I couldn't have said that better myself. Thanks Bruce for trying to give the rest of us a heads up on the problems that you've had with your engine. There's nothing wrong with others trying to help you isolate the problem as long as it's done in a positive manner.

I sure hope I don't receive the same reception as you when I post future problems. Looking forward to seeing you as well as everyone else at Norwalk.

Ccass · 07-23-2002, 01:59 PM

The next post that is not directly related to the resolution of the motor problem in this thread will be that member's last. That includes asking questions that have already been asked.

johnta1 · 07-23-2002, 05:15 PM

Goatman,
why don't you just find a 455 out of a junker and put your heads,intake and cam in it?

Then just shift at 5000 rpm and run 10's.

That way you will still be racing,and to me that's the most important part.

Taff · 07-23-2002, 06:29 PM

I know some guys who built a full on 455 that self destructed after a short while. They then chucked together another 455 out of all their old bits, just to finish the season , and the car ran it's quickest ever times! Must have been the 'racing' clearances.I know what it's like to lose an engine,I once lost three in a row while trying to develope a twin turbo system on my Pontiac.Ah, the joys of motoring.

ddouble · 07-23-2002, 09:20 PM

Hot Rod good post.
Ccass good call.
Goatman sorry about the motor, keep us posted on findings. At this point blame is not the issue. Not letting it happen again is.
Good luck,
Dan

Tim Swain · 07-23-2002, 09:56 PM

Jim Taylor of Taylor Engine Services gives one year warrenty on parts and labor. This was a labor problem.

Ron · 07-23-2002, 11:44 PM

Great post Hot Rod. It needed to be said.

Ron

Goatman · 07-24-2002, 08:31 AM

Johnta, Taff, when you start with junk you end up with junk. That's not my style. My heads have longer valves and with my cam, who knows if there would be any piston to valve issues, ect. I'd have to clean the block to install a valley brace, and then who knows how long its going to last? It may end up taking out a head or oil pan when it goes, then I'd just be worse off than I am right now. Hacking things isn't the answer, neither is ruching around just to get back out there.

Tim Swain, more "knowledge" from a guy who still knows nothing about Pontiacs, by his own admission................We're all impressed.

Thanks to everyone for all their support and to those who are genuinely trying to help. If I have time to find out any more about the motor, I will post on it.

Bob Dillon · 07-24-2002, 11:44 AM

Bruce, sorry about the motor. Life is just one damned thing after another. It would be one thing if it coughed up a rod or something, but to have some little freak deal like that happen is a real bummer.

But I don't understand your reluctance to inspect the oil filter. That seems to me to be where you're going to find the best clue as to what happened. The debris inside (if any) is gonna give you the best idea of whether your theory on the timing cover is correct.

It'd be the first thing I'd do.

PLAY400 · 07-24-2002, 12:11 PM

I remember reading a post last year where someone was driving to 1 of the races, had noticed the oil pressure drop and start fluctuating but still put on 1500 miles before getting home and investigating the trouble. The writer had 2 external filters, 1 metal other ? and when he inspected them he found that all the bearing material was caught by the filters. He had pictures. The writer then went on to explain that he had disabled the oil pressure bypass and that is what saved his motor. I am under the impression that Bruce uses external mounted filters on his engine and since he goes first class I would assume them to be more that adequate. But what was used when the motor was run.

I have learned a valuable leasson from this though. I will spend the money to have my engine builder run and dyno my engine b4 I take possession. After hearing what happened to Bruce I now consider it cheap insurance. Alan

Goatman · 07-24-2002, 01:18 PM

Bob, thanks. I just feel at this point, what good is it? I know there is bearing material in there, and I'm sure peices of the timing cover too. The crank is already getting fixed, the rods are being cleaned and checked, and the block belongs to someone else. For whatever reason, the #5 bearing failed, metal did go through the entire engine, as all the bearings have marks in them, but just on the coating. Is it possible that #5 rod was a little tighter than the rest and that's all it took once the metal got in there? Sure. Do I blame anyone for it? Nope. I would like to find out why metal got into the oil and why there are scuff marks on the pistons, but that seems to be all but impossible now.

Play400, thank you as well. I do not, however, use an external filter, as there really is no need unless you have a clearance issue with the headers. The internal bypass, was however, blocked off, so all the oil did go through the filter, and it was a brand new Wix unit, as well as 6 quarts of brand new Valvoline VR 20w50 racing oil.

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