[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

Im sorry that it didnt bring more.

You (AMX) showed you are a good sport by posting comments, replies to others posts (even taking it on the chin the day after) and I wish you better fortune on the next one.

Sending a message of prayers for your childs speedy recovery.

Well said, Jeff. I concur.

Scott

[SuperStockAMX]

RAIII 4-speed red on red '70 Judge in "decent" condition, supposedly numbers matching sold for $66K (before fee's). Red '66 GTO Convertible, 3x2, 4-speed hammer dropped @ $64K.
If I owned the Red on Red '69 GTO RAIV convertible that's comming up (owner paid $175K for it last year), I think I'd try to sneak it out the back door right about now and file for a lost title!
By the way, my buddies impressions (they all have cars up for auction; both @ BJ & Russo & Steele this week) and my own is the "electricity" is just not in the air. No cheering going on. Amy, the famous cutie wife / floor auctioneer of one of the auctioneers doesn't even seem like she wants to be there. Other notations are the intermediate body muscle cars just aren't getting the big bucks (Torino's, B-Body MOPARS, Chevelles, GTO's...), watch and you'll see. But the pony cars (camaro, et al) seem to be doing pretty well. I'm dissapointed in BJ incorporating too much. A plethora of choppers (those guys really loose their shirts on those rides) and now the rock-n-roll memoribillia is being auctioned at the same time as vehicles. There's also a disco on site in another tent. Craig Jackson is turning this into too much of a carnival for my taste.

[Andretti]

I want to go down and kill the one floor auctioneer who keeps screaming every time he places bids. Must drive the people around him crazy.

[jimmy daniel]

After the convertible GTO brings mid 60's last night, the Camaro right behind it brings 68K. It just doesn't seem the Pontiacs were doing very well. I thought that 70 red Judge looked real good and was dissappointed it didn't bring more.

[mcduck]

Originally Posted by robz

I tend to agree..I own 2 red GTOs but w/ Black Interior (and yes Resale Red does help sell car I'm sure but not for an interior, when ext. is already red)..It would have been a mean looking car if ext was black with that red interior, IMHO

Never questioned the resale power of the red exterior OR the red interior. But together on a late 60s muscle car just doesn't look right IMO. Same color interiors I've always equated to late 50s/early 60s cars. That's just my warped perspective, tho. I'm judging strictly stand alone asthetics... I realize there are a LOT of red w/black interior cars, but I think that combo in general looks better (hence, probably, the reason there are more of them)

lethal-428-lemans First props on such a sweet engine car combo. A buddy of mine has a '64 428 lemans... one of the quickest cars I've every ridden in.

BBC car shows I was referring to is generally the coverage of new cars... Top Gear and Fifth Gear (I definitely like Top Gear the best). There's another series run a few years ago that traced the histories of various makes (Ferrari, Jaguar, etc) that was really good, too. The topics are not always better than the US show, but it seems the execution of the shows is always more interesting and entertaining. I think the US shows tend to 'dumb down' a lot for public consumption

[mcduck]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

After the convertible GTO brings mid 60's last night, the Camaro right behind it brings 68K. It just doesn't seem the Pontiacs were doing very well. I thought that 70 red Judge looked real good and was dissappointed it didn't bring more.

yeah, by themselves I wasn't too upset about the GTO pricing until you compare it to what the other cars around them are selling for. :dunno:

[RAIVJUDGE]

How about the Cougar Eliminator that went for 110K

[70ra455]

What's the beef? You buy into ranches (if they float your boat or fit your budget) cheaper than colonials. When it comes to selling you sell ranches cheaper too.

You buy into Pontiacs (if they float your boat or fit your budget) cheaper than Chebbys. When it comes time to selling you sell Pontiacs cheaper too.

If you want the highest resales muscle car buy into e-body Mopars. I don't need high prices (nor do I want them) of GTO's, Firebirds, Bonnies, GP's to validate that I like them better than Chevelles, Camaros, Impala, or Monte Carlos.

I'm so thankful (and so should you) that I don't have to spend Chevelle money for GTO's!

[SuperStockAMX]

I saw a really nice '70 Chevelle SS396-350HP (base HP) / auto trans loaded with documentation. Blue with white interior, cowl hood sell for $38K. I saw a '70 'Cuda in red with rubber bumpers that was also really nice & 340 engine for $38K. Last night a '50's 956 Porche Speedster sold for $90K across the block. The very same car sold last year @ BJ for $135K said the auctioneer. With fee's, that's an over $52K loss or $1K a week to the seller.
My personal analysis is the auction prices are down. But I bet in the end, BJ will have another record year. FYI, don't forget there is another 200+ cars this year and the music memorabillia will somehow get in with the cash mix. There is also a TON of e-body hemi cars and just as many GT500 Shelby's. But I'll bet if you look at the common muscle cars, the average will be WAY down.

[JLHarper]

Well, one question: Who is buying at BJ?

I see the crowd of people in ball caps bidding/buying and wonder if they are "dealers" buying inventory to sell, deep pocket collectors buying for own collection or average joes buying their first car/new toy for garage?

Anyone that is / was there can share some insight?

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

Well, one question: Who is buying at BJ?

As always, the majority are the super rich guys that make this hobby worse for the little guys.

[Steve Hoog]

Sure ain't me buying there, I can't afford to pay attention.

[The Boss]

And I thought you paid pretty good attention.

Although some of the cars have sold cheaply, I still think it's better to buy them the traditional ways (word of mouth, Hemmings, Auto Trader etc.).

[Steve Hoog]

How about the two old fashioned ways? Win them in a poker game or inherit them?

[JLHarper]

Reason I ask is IF dealers are NOT buying, and average Joes are NOT buying is this a precursor of market prices to come?

Serious collectors have and will continue to buy.

Its the excitement created by average Joes interest that made this muscle market go to where it is now.

If they have lost interest, or slowed down this might be why prices are weak on musclecars.

The announcers even tried to hype things a little by saying "the market is strong for original cars and nicely done recreations". Also talking about record auction sales. If this first auction is example of what is considered "strong" in muscleville,
....weve got a problem.

Might be the big adjustment, and like 70RA455 says "time to buy".

Or...Is this just a bad auction, maybe the time of year? I see some members think other venues will do better. What do you all think?

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by SuperStockAMX

I saw a really nice '70 Chevelle SS396-350HP (base HP) / auto trans loaded with documentation. Blue with white interior, cowl hood sell for $38K. I saw a '70 'Cuda in red with rubber bumpers that was also really nice & 340 engine for $38K. Last night a '50's 956 Porche Speedster sold for $90K across the block. The very same car sold last year @ BJ for $135K said the auctioneer. With fee's, that's an over $52K loss or $1K a week to the seller.
My personal analysis is the auction prices are down. But I bet in the end, BJ will have another record year. FYI, don't forget there is another 200+ cars this year and the music memorabillia will somehow get in with the cash mix. There is also a TON of e-body hemi cars and just as many GT500 Shelby's. But I'll bet if you look at the common muscle cars, the average will be WAY down.

It will be interesting to see how these Hemis and Shelbys do, after the ridiculous prices they were bringing last year, I think the results of these cars will be the key indicators of the health of the market overall (but not necessarily the health of the hobby).

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

Its the excitement created by average Joes interest that made this muscle market go to where it is now.

I guess it depends on who you believe was responsible to for sending the prices up. Do a search on BJ results from last year (especially one about a $110k Judge). I don't believe the average Joes caused it. This whole thing really started taking off just after the tech bubble burst. Investors capitulated their equity holdings and turned to tangible objects, musclecars being at the forefront, and their influx of money and aggressive buying made prices shoot up. Some investors have been stepping out over the past year and that is reflected in what you are seeing now. What's left?? - The hobby, which I think is as strong as it has ever been.

[poncho-mike]

I haven't read the full thread, so if I'm repeating somebody else's thoughts, I apologize.

Has anyone considered the effect of the real estate market on car prices? The real estate "bubble" has been discussed in detail in many business articles. People were planning their capital expenditures based on their home appreciating in value. Many may have the double whammy of having an adjustable mortage rate.

Fast forward a year later and the fed has raised interest rates several times, which is causing any home loan (first mortage or equity line) to see an increased cost to borrow money. Many of the hotter areas of the country are cooling and real estate prices are dropping.

So when you add in those two factors, the money to purchase a muscle car may not be as readily available as it was last year.

I have mixed feelings on the old car hobby. As an owner, I'm happy to see the prices increase because I know someday I'll sell off a big portion of the cars I own. I'm also frustrated because I got a lot of enjoyment by going out and finding neat cars. It's getting hard to find old cars cheap enough they can be enjoyed.

Mike

[gtohurstjudge]

I saw two Nice 350 h.p base motor SS396 Chevelles go over
the block last night. One was sold for 50K, the other sold for 62K. These
were 1970 models. Didn't see any 38K Chevelles. Keep in mind that more
of these 350 horse Chevelles were sold in 1970 than the entire 1970 GTO
production run! It is sad that a very nice 70 Judge only beats the price of
a common base model Chevelle by 4,000 dollars. Of course I'm not too terribly
upset because I own one of these base model 70 SS Chevelles.

[gto4evr]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between a "recreation" and a "clone" other than the negative connotation the latter has? I've been hearing both during the BJ broadcast but they never back up and explain why they're using both terms.