[GT182]

Looks like a nice conversion guys. I'm also concidering this for my 66 with a 3.55 rear.

Just a note however... according to Keisler, there is no need to cut your tunnel. They say their 5 speed is custom fit to drop in and use your shifter, console and all stock pieces without modifications. Haven't had the time to search here at the forums and see if this is true or not but it sure sounds good to me. Has anyone used the Keisler 5 speed and have any feedback?

BTW... Happy New Year to everyone.

[som2002]

I'm sure you'll have to raise the tunnel to fit the Tremec transmission no matter who makes the conversion kit. The Tremec transmission is physically ALOT bigger than the Muncie. I'm no expert on the other years, but there is no way it would have fit without cutting in ours.

[GT182]

Thanks for that Som2002, I don't reall want to cut anything if I can help it, as I don't have the tools or welder to tackle it... nor the money right now. It'll be a down-the-road project later on.

[Tripower455]

They say their 5 speed is custom fit to drop in and use your shifter, console and all stock pieces without modifications.

BS...... There is no way that is true, at least on the Pontiac A bodies.......

[Jim Doran]

http://www.keislerauto.com/gm/transm...lle_64-67.html

Tech note: THE NEED FOR TUNNEL REVISION – Keisler Engineering makes every effort from a design standpoint to allow the use of the PerfectFit™ System with no tunnel modifications. On some cars, such as the GM A-body, there is no way to achieve the correct driveline angle in the original tunnel. In cases where tunnel mods must be made, the original carpet, console and shift position are retained after the provided sheet metal is installed, making the installation as clean as possible while giving the proper mechanical result.

[MikeR64]

I recently did the 5 speed swap on my 64 GTO convertible. Overall, it went well, but it was not without a couple of speed bumps.
To start with Kiesler sent me a proposal which was a parts list along with all the pricing. This was a very comprehensive kit in that it has virtually anything one would need. In it they listed a 10.4 clutch disc.
When I called to order it, I referred to the proposal number. I told them I wanted to get the whole clutch setup instead of just the disc. They sent the whole package out the next day. The included the entire clutch assembly as requested, but went all Chevy on me and sent an 11” unit. Duh. So I had to send that back

The first thing they tell you to do is READ THE ENTIRE SET OF DIRECTIONS BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE. This is good because they tell you to remove the seats, console if equipped, and carpeting. Shift handle and linkage goes also. Then buried later on in the instruction book, they tell you “If the car is originally a four speed car, you may not need to cut the floor.”

Long story short, I never removed anything in the interior except for the console and shift boot. I was able to bolt the crossmember back 1 ½ inches as required by not using the rubber end mounts and instead bolting it directly to the porches on the frame rails. I did need to cut two small (one inch) slots to the rear of the existing shifter hole so the shift tower would clear the hole when trying to put the trans on the bellhousing. These were later sealed off again. The carpet, shift boot and console cover everything. The shift handle they sent LOOKS exactly like the original except with their logo, but it hit the seat in all but 1,3 and 5th gears. Anything south of neutral was impossible. The culprit was the angle of the handle in relation to the tower. I took a 3” cutoff wheel and cut most of the way through the shift handle just above the bolt area where the boot would hide it. I bolted the handle on bent it slightly and went through the gears to make sure I could reach them and the handle hit nothing – including the console. After a session with my handy welder, it fit nicely.

Driving impressions: Holy Cow! The car is completely different. Since it is a Pontiac and has the usual torque abundance, it pulls the same in 5th as it does in 3rd. I found myself hitting 75 mph accidently the first time out on a two-lane test road. I now have to watch the speed when in cruise mode. Before the swap, running 3.55 gears, I had to work on keeping the car at 65 mph just due to the engine speed, which was around 3 grand. Now the 65 mph engine speed is right at 2 grand.
The trans crossmember being bolted directly to the frame porches only seems to give the car a slightly more “granular” effect, but that may be due to the trans itself. I’ve put about 200 miles on the car and have gotten used to the more mechanical feel – not that it was any real difference anyway. And being a 5 speed with the lower gearing in 1-3, I found the 60 series radial 16 inch tires are somewhat useless if one applies large amounts of loud pedal. I’ve only tried that once since Kiesler wants to put 500 miles of easy driving on the trans before you go into warp drive.
All in all, was it a good swap? No. It was a great swap!

[AG]

MikeR64,

You didn't cut the tunnel at all? And if you didn't, was the trans mount too low? I have a '65 and have bought a TKO600, but have not installed it yet.

[MikeR64]

Originally Posted by AG

MikeR64,

You didn't cut the tunnel at all? And if you didn't, was the trans mount too low? I have a '65 and have bought a TKO600, but have not installed it yet.

AG - I am using the TKO 500. I guess the TKO 600 is the same size on top, but am not positive. The only cutting I did was to elongate the shifter hole about one inch in order to get the shift tower to clear while tilting the trans up into the bellhousing. I just pulled this section up with channel locks, then tacked it back when finished. The instructions stated that if the car was originally a four-speed car, then the hump may not need to be cut. I did just for grins do some minor ball-peen work on the area just to the rear of the shifter porch in about a 2x3 area to expand it maybe 1/2 inch, but I'm not sure that was really needed. They tell you to trial fit the trans which I did on an empty bellhousing with no pilot bearing to make things easier. At that point, you are able to tell what will clear and what won't. The part I worked with the hammer was a little close - they tell you you'll need 1/4" at minimum - so I erred on the side of caution.

I was able to move the crossmember back the prescribed 1 1/2 inches, but since the convertible uses a shelf to mount the crossmember instead of having it sit on the bottom of the frame rail I was unable to use the rubber end cups and original clamping type mount. There is only room on the mounting shelf for the original position with no fore-aft movement available. (You gotta see the convertible setup to get a grip on the concept.) Instead, I mounted the crossmember to the transmission, jacked things up in place and clamped the crossmember to the shelf with welder's vicegrips. I drilled two holes per side directly through the mount ends and frame shelf. The trans crossmember is at the original height minus the 1/8" cushion of the rubber end sleeve. The emergency brake cable even had enough adjustment in it so I didn't have to drill another hole and move it forward.

[AG]

MikeR,

Is your trans mount surface (where you bolt the x-member mount on the trans) lower now than stock? I thought the issue with cutting the tunnel was to allow the trans to be raised high enough to maintain the same as stock driveshaft angle. Do you know if your driveshaft angle has changed? What shifter are you using and in what position on the trans?

Thanks, Tony

[MikeR64]

Originally Posted by AG

MikeR,

Is your trans mount surface (where you bolt the x-member mount on the trans) lower now than stock? I thought the issue with cutting the tunnel was to allow the trans to be raised high enough to maintain the same as stock driveshaft angle. Do you know if your driveshaft angle has changed? What shifter are you using and in what position on the trans?

Tony,
The trans mount surface is at stock height. The output of the transmission is at stock height minus perhaps 1/8 inch. The instructions said "If the car was originally a four speed, you may only need to modify the hump by using a ball-peen hammer to gain a little extra clearance. Clearly, if my car did not have the four speed hump, porch, whatever you call the bump where the stock shifter fits, it would not clear. They also tell you to trial fit the trans, loop a length of 1/4" o.d. hose over top of it and pull the hose from front to rear to check for adequate clearance. I had one slightly tight spot just to the rear of the shift tower that I bumped out with a ball-peen hammer.
I used the supplied rubber trans to x-member mount which appears to be a stock item. They got the bolt size wrong on the x-member side, so I had to dig up two of those. I purchased a new mount because I originally thought I would have to do sugery on it to make it go back the extra 1 1/2 inches. The only thing that was changed was the way the x-member got bolted up to the little shelves on the side of the frame rails. Normally, on convertibles, they use rubber insulator end cups and a cap that captures the cup/x-member end and clamps it to the frame shelf. I bolted my x-member directly to the shelf, so overall I guess the rear of the trans is about 1/8" lower than stock. I am re-posting a photo that eric65 posted a while back that shows the original rubber insulators. Mine doesn't have those any more and the x-member is at the rear of the shelves. I believe he said he moved his porches back the required amount. I did not want to fool with that since I have things like a floor and a car in the way.
AND - I've cruised the car up to 85 or so without any drivetrain vibration at all.

[rexus31]

FWIW, my '64 GTO has the rubber insulators on the trans crossmember and it is a hard top. I don't think those insulators were limited to convertibles. Their purpose was to dampen drivetrain vibration.

[MikeR64]

Rexus - I did not know they were used on non-convertibles. I figured they were only for drivetrain isolation purposes. I had just never seen them on other A-bodies. Of course those were of the C-word. I learned something today! ('bout time...)
Like I mentioned in a previous post, there is only the slightest increase of "grainy-ness" while driving, and I'm guessing that is due to me not using the insulators.

[67GTONUT]

So......

ClassicChevy 5-Speed says the tunnel has to be cut....

Kaisler says minor mods to tunnel if it was originally a 4 speed......

.... or am I missing something between the 2 sites....

[GT182]

Thanks guys I stand corrected on the no cutting the tunnel. I had my 11 month old grandson on my lap while looking at the writeup, and somehow I missed that section.

[MikeR64]

Originally Posted by 67GTONUT

So......

ClassicChevy 5-Speed says the tunnel has to be cut....

Kaisler says minor mods to tunnel if it was originally a 4 speed......

.... or am I missing something between the 2 sites....

GTONUT - I'm with you... Kiesler includes two pieces of sheetmetal that are to be used when you do the tunnel surgery. Both are still sitting in my garage. I guess I was lucky in that I didn't have to cut.

[67GTONUT]

If no cutting is involved....... this will be my next project....

Trying to reach some shops that are listed on Keislers site.....