[*67firebird*]

whats this i hear about turning the rotor and then letting the distributor fall into the oil pump shaft? does it matter where the #1 plug goes?
never done this before....

[Motor Daddy]

The oil pump shaft is slotted, like a flat tip screw. The distributor gear must seat properly into the oil pump shaft. You can use a long flat tip screwdriver to turn the oil pump shaft if the distributor doesn't seat properly when the rotor is pointing to the #1 wire. You can also get the rotor close and rotate the distributor, or you can just change the wires on the cap. Just make sure there is enough room to rotate the distributor enough to set the timing.

[*67firebird*]

and thats it? its timed?

[71 Ventura II]

Provided your using the #1 cylinder for your timing, aka the dots on your timing set were both at 12'oclock.

Bring the engine to TDC #1 on the firing sroke. Now back the engine to read 10 degrees BTDC. Decide how you want your distributor oriented and select the #1 terminal. As you install the distributor, the MOST IMPORTANT aspect is the mating of the distributor gear to cam gear, which happens above/before the oil pump shaft contact, to point the rotor at the #1 terminal on the cap. The position of the oil pump shaft does not matter in terms of timing the engine.

As long as you can "Mesh" the distributor gear to the cam gear while getting the rotor to point to the #1 terminal on the cap you are phased properly. MORE than likely the distributor housing WILL NOT sit flush with the block. All that's required is to slowly rotate the engine until the distributor drops down the final 1/4" onto the oil pump shaft, sitting flush to the block. Leaning over the engine, trying to guess where the oil-pump shaft needs to point is a waist of time, not to mention frustrating.

Remember, once the distributor and cam are phased/meshed you've achieved the proper install, now seat the dizzy, and finish by setting the timing with the light. Turning the engine "slowly" to seat the distributor will not change the installed position in terms of timing the engine. Any questions let me know. JD

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by *67firebird*

and thats it? its timed?

Nope, not quite yet.

To static time the engine you can turn the crank until the line on the damper lines up with the 12 BTDC mark on the timing marks when on the compression stroke of the #1 cylinder (front drivers side). Then install the distributor in such a fashion that the rotor lines up with the #1 wire on the cap when the distributor is fully seated. Hook up a timing light, and leave the distributor clamp bolt loose, and make sure the vacuum advance hose is disconnected. Then just start the engine and check the timing with the light. Turn the distributor to adjust the initial and total. Tighten the clamp bolt and recheck to ensure nothing moved. You can check the total advance by increasing the engine RPM and watching the advance come in. Increase engine RPM until the advance stops climbing. That is your total.

[*67firebird*]

71 ventura,
motor-daddy,
i forgot to mentions this is for break in.... does it make a difference?

[Motor Daddy]

The way you install the distributor doesn't change, but there is some additional information you need to know for flat tappet cam break-in procedures. Do a search and do some reading. It'll answer all your questions and help the cam live a long healthy life.

As far as the distributor goes, make sure you connect the vacuum advance to a manifold source during break-in. This provides additional advance under no load break-in which helps keeps temperatures down.

[hozy]

So can the #1 wire be any where on the cap as long as all wires are in the correct order ?

[71 Ventura II]

Originally Posted by hozy

So can the #1 wire be any where on the cap as long as all wires are in the correct order ?

Yes, as long as the engine is timed and you maintain the 18436572 CC firing order you can designate any terminal at #1. BUT if you ordered plug wires specific for your engine and year you may run into some head aches trying to get the plug wires installed as you will end up with the wrong lengths. Tailored wire sets are designed to work with the factory #1 terminal positon on the cap. JD

[hozy]

Doesn't the rotor always point in the same direction at tdc ?

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by hozy

Doesn't the rotor always point in the same direction at tdc ?

You can install the distributor with the rotor in any position.

Let's say we walk up to a freshly assembled engine installed in a vehicle and install the distributor in the engine and start the engine.

First thing we need to determine is which stroke #1 cylinder is on and where the damper line is in relation to the timing marks. You can do this several ways. One way is to put a paper or your finger in the spark plug hole and have someone crank over the engine (ignition disabled) slowly. When the compression starts to build and blows out the paper, or pushes your finger away, you are on the compression stroke. Simply rotate crank in a clockwise manner until the mark on the damper lines up with the 12 BTDC timing mark. Now #1 cylinder is 12 degrees before top dead center on the compression stroke which is a good position for the plug to fire. You can also pull a valve cover and watch the valves while you rotate the crank. If you rotate the crank clockwise, when the intake valve closes the engine is on the compression stroke. Simply keep slowly turning the crank clockwise until the damper line is at 12 BTDC.

We install the distributor so it is fully seated, regardless of rotor position. The rotor can be installed in any position because we are going to position the wires on the cap according to where the rotor is pointing when installed. Whatever terminal on the cap the rotor points to is going to be #1, since #1 is in position to fire (12 BTDC of the compression stroke). Then just install the wire for the next cylinder in the firing order (18436572) on the next counterclockwise terminal. Once all the wires are on the engine is ready to fire and set the timing with a timing light.

In a different test, the rule is, the wires have to remain installed on the cap in the exact position they are installed at all times. That means the rotor must be aligned with the current #1 terminal on the cap, so when #1 is 12 degrees BTDC of the compression stroke, the rotor must point to the #1 wire on the cap.

Either way will work, but personal preference of the placement of the wires, factory correctness, wire length, wire routing, and the location of the vacuum advance can all are factors in the installation of the distributor and the cap and wires.

[*67firebird*]

ok i got the distributor in, but after i read this again i believe 71 Ventura says "a the dots on your timing set were both at 12'oclock." i thought TDC is when the crank dot is at 12 o clock and cam dot is at 6 olock....am i wrong ??? if i am i have to go back and turn the engine over 360 degrees right?? until the balancer is at 0" right?

also, my balancer has from 0-60 degrees its a perfomance prodcuts type, do i have to get a timing tape that has the BTDC marks? for me to get it at BTDC?

[wheelspin]

Oz,
Congratulations on becoming an Ultimate Warrior . As an Ultimate Warrior you are expected to answer questions, not just ask them . Time to buy a factory service manual for your car, which includes pictures and a thorough explanation of removing/ reinstalling and timing a distributor.

They are available @ automanuals.com, among other sources.

Les

[*67firebird*]

DAAMMITT!!!! haa

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by *67firebird*

ok i got the distributor in, but after i read this again i believe 71 Ventura says "a the dots on your timing set were both at 12'oclock." i thought TDC is when the crank dot is at 12 o clock and cam dot is at 6 olock....am i wrong ??? if i am i have to go back and turn the engine over 360 degrees right?? until the balancer is at 0" right?

also, my balancer has from 0-60 degrees its a perfomance prodcuts type, do i have to get a timing tape that has the BTDC marks? for me to get it at BTDC?

With the crank dot at 12 and the cam dot at 6 its lined up to fire #6 , not #1. Thats why both should be at 12 o clock.

[Interceptor]

Tackling this issue now, HEI into a 72 400. I know I'm at #1 TDC but don't remember whether my cam gear dot is at 6:00 or 12:00. I've been foolishly going with standard American V8 engine assembly procedures, which Pontiacs do not always seem to follow . . . where do I go from here?

I do have a 1970 factory service manual for the car, is the install procedure the same for an HEI as for a points distributor?

I can't take any chances with this thing not firing right up as I will be breaking in a flat-tappet cam. Any advice besides the previous posts?

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Tackling this issue now, HEI into a 72 400. I know I'm at #1 TDC but don't remember whether my cam gear dot is at 6:00 or 12:00. I've been foolishly going with standard American V8 engine assembly procedures, which Pontiacs do not always seem to follow . . . where do I go from here?

I do have a 1970 factory service manual for the car, is the install procedure the same for an HEI as for a points distributor?

I can't take any chances with this thing not firing right up as I will be breaking in a flat-tappet cam. Any advice besides the previous posts?

Install is the same with HEI. If you know for sure that you are at TDC, then the dots will be proper as long as you put your timing gears in properly.

Be sure to pre-oil.

Sometimes getting the oil pump driveshaft lined up is tricky. When you stuff the disty in, it will rotate CCW by about 30 or so degrees, not to be confused with timing degrees. This is due to the gear meshing. You will have to position your oil pump shaft slot anticipating this movement.

Do everything Motor Daddy said. When I did my break in, I disconnected and plugged the vac advance line. Immediately after startup, I gave the disty a couple of quick tweaks cw and ccw to find a good smooth spot, and then ran the motor up to 2500 rpm. I then shot it with the timing light to check that I was somewhere close to 30* btdc while at speed.

My preferred disty setup: Get just before TDC, as mentioned, 12* is a nice place. Align the oil pump driveshaft with a screwdriver so that it will mesh with the disty slot when the rotor points to 11:00 when viewed from the front of the car. Stab the disty with the rotor pointing at 12:00, or even a touch before that toward 1:00, with the vac advance can pointing between the driver side head and firewall. This should hopefully get your rotor at 11:00. I then install the cap, and my #1 is at 11:00, # 2 is at 1:00, etc. Just follow firing order around from there. Make sure that when you stab it you have room to adjust the timing without getting your vac advance can hung up on the throttle cable, head, etc.

[PunchT37]

I put my #1 at 1:00 o`clock position. Best for routing wires. Place the dist body in the block to see where it`s the best place to rotate for timing[doesn`t have to be stabbed].

Put the cap on where it locks down. Put a sharpie line under the 1 o`clock tower on dist body. Pull dist. out. Hold it up over your head and note the shaft slot angle/position.Do not rotate the dist when holding it up. That`s where the pump slot needs to END UP when fully stabbed.Put a sharpie line on the block where that is. Put the engine at 12 degrees btdc. Look down the dist hole and note the pump slot position. Get it about 1/4 turn before the line on the block. Stab dist. It might not go in the 1`st time so the
pump shaft might have to be moved slightly. Stab the dist till it`s fully down on the gasket and the rotor is lined up exactly on the line you put earlier on the body.

I like to pull the dist out slowly and you will see the rotor rotate backwards till it`s out. Then, put a sharpie line on the dist. body where it stopped. You can put a sharpie line on the block where that happened too.

That way you know where to line the pump shaft up the next time you stab.

Line the pump slot with the early line on the block, line the rotor with the early line on the dist body and it will fall right in. Over and over.

Sounds complex but it`s not. Karl, aka 72LuxuryLeMansLa, was here when I stabbed/1`st started mine. I showed him that. We started the engine. Started right up. I checked the timing after a short run with him there. Dead nuts on 12 degrees.

Just a little trick for having timing dead on for break in before you start up the engine and have to idle it or play with it while rounding your new cam.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

I put my #1 at 1:00 o`clock position. Best for routing wires. Place the dist body in the block to see where it`s the best place to rotate for timing[doesn`t have to be stabbed].

Put the cap on where it locks down. Put a sharpie line under the 1 o`clock tower on dist body. Pull dist. out. Hold it up over your head and note the shaft slot angle/position.Do not rotate the dist when holding it up. That`s where the pump slot needs to END UP when fully stabbed.Put a sharpie line on the block where that is. Put the engine at 12 degrees btdc. Look down the dist hole and note the pump slot position. Get it about 1/4 turn before the line on the block. Stab dist. It might not go in the 1`st time so the
pump shaft might have to be moved slightly. Stab the dist till it`s fully down on the gasket and the rotor is lined up exactly on the line you put earlier on the body.

I like to pull the dist out slowly and you will see the rotor rotate backwards till it`s out. Then, put a sharpie line on the dist. body where it stopped. You can put a sharpie line on the block where that happened too.

That way you know where to line the pump shaft up the next time you stab.

Line the pump slot with the early line on the block, line the rotor with the early line on the dist body and it will fall right in. Over and over.

Sounds complex but it`s not. Karl, aka 72LuxuryLeMansLa, was here when I stabbed/1`st started mine. I showed him that. We started the engine. Started right up. I checked the timing after a short run with him there. Dead nuts on 12 degrees.

Just a little trick for having timing dead on for break in before you start up the engine and have to idle it or play with it while rounding your new cam.

Verified. It wasn't that it was real close, it was exactly @ 12°BTDC

[lust4speed]

I was told many years ago by an old Pontiac mechanic that installing the distributor in any position other than #1 terminal pointing at the driver will incur the wrath of the Pontiac gods. While I'm not very superstitious, I figure that it certainly doesn't hurt to position the distributor the way Pontiac said.