[rocky]

Here's the deal I have a 455 that has maybe fifty passes built by a local guy in New Jersey.after maybe fifty passes noticed oil pressed droped by 10 psi thur out the rmp of the motor.Checked end play of crank and got a reading of 25 thousands.Ok I thought thrust bearing.Took engine apart and found thrust bearing had wear.Keep in mind never seen any sign of bearing in oil or in the filter.Took it back to this guy (no need to names but pm me if you like to know who it is not going to bash) he said I will fix issues he also agreed it was thrust bearing. Sent converter and trans so a shop in Maryland and all checked out fine with trans and the converter was on its way out but not ballooned.They didnt think convertor cause thrust problem.Back to engine explained to dude I am on tight budget.So almsot went nut when I got 4100.00 bill to freshen up an engine that was almost new.Here's what really pisses me off when dropped it off he said I am going to put a Cadilliac seal in it I said no I have run this same motor for many years with rope with no problem. So he puts it in and it leaks go figure right. Then he tries another type of rubber seals leaks worse. Tries that seal again and it leaks he put a rope seal and doesnt leak wish he listen to me because he charged me three time to put seal in. Questions are do you think an engine that has less than 50 runs needs to be line bored,deck surface,heads surface,valve job,valve guides,valve spring retainers,lash caps,head bolts,rocker studs.Keep in mind this was supposed to be done less than fifty runs ago.So you think I was hosed or what

[Ron Genovese]

Considering that you had brought it back for an oil pressure problem, yea, you definetly got hosed. Does this guy build engines for a living?

[rocky]

Yes he does

[rocky]

I know I was hosed but wanted to get other opions.I have ran Ponitacs for over twenty years with out an issue.But just wanted to see what others had to say.If anyone out there is looking for an engine builder in New Jersey PM me and I will let you know who to stay away from .Oh he is suppose to be a family friend

[Rob B]

Fire hosed...
Sorry to hear about that.

[Jeff V]

Man,you went through alot of crap for 10lbs of oil pressure.Are you sure the thrust was worn?You should have seen that in the filter.10 degrees of engine temp can drop your oil pressure by 10lbs.Sorry to hear you got the shaft.$4100 for a freshen up?What kind of HP are we talking about here?Don't get me wrong,everyone needs to make a buck now and then but dam*!!That's alot of cash for a rebuild with no real new parts.(like heads,intake,pistons)

[Jagtec1]

You got SCREWED. Sorry to hear about it. You really should post the name of the business in the business section to forewarn others.

[BVR421]

did you figure out the cause of the thrust wear?
how did you correct that?

[screamingchief]

Here's how I see this,I'll try to take this one item @ a time.

The rear main seal deal first,you told him exactly what you wanted to use,and he did'nt listen to that,and in spite of your specific directive,he went ahead and used something that you expressly told him not to use.

I would'nt have paid him a dime for that fiasco.

That's all on him IMO,as a matter of fact,I would'nt have even taken delivery till the rope seal was put in the motor,I would not have even put a second of run time on the engine with those other seals in them,not because there is anything inherently wrong with them or such,but just because they're not what was explictly requested by you,the customer,the one paying for the work.

Now the "freshen".

IMO that might easily include new rings,bearings,gaskets,definitely a hone job to go with the new rings,maybe a basic valve clean-up,and a light head surfacing,but any serious machine work beyond that and you absolutely should have been contacted and advised of the need and costs before any work was done.

I dont feel the line bore should have been consider part of the "freshen",if they discovered a problem during the inspection and diagnosis of the thrust bearing issue,absofrickinlutely you should have been contacted and told of such,advised of the costs involved,and then asked for approval/authorization for said work before it was actually done.

If they missed that main problem on the initial build,ask me they should be willing to eat at least some of that cost,as that should have been checked out on the first build.

Kinda the same deal on the valve guides,I dont see them needing service that quickly,so I'd be real suspicious about that deal too.

Deck surfacing,again this is not always the most commonly needed machine process,if it was indeed necessary,they should have brought it to your attention like the other items.

Further I dont quite understand why they replaced the retainers,lash caps,head bolts,or rocker studs,all those seem to me to be relatively durable items that rarely need service unless some issues were found,and again they should call and advise you,and get authorization to replace,that is SOP for a "good" shop/builder IMHO.

I dunno,I would likely be looking for another machine shop/builder myself.

But there are always at least three sides to every story,,,and we've only heard your side thus far...

[rocky]

Originally Posted by BVR421

did you figure out the cause of the thrust wear?
how did you correct that?

No but I think it was due to a line bore issues from day one

[rocky]

Originally Posted by Jeff V

Man,you went through alot of crap for 10lbs of oil pressure.Are you sure the thrust was worn?You should have seen that in the filter.10 degrees of engine temp can drop your oil pressure by 10lbs.Sorry to hear you got the shaft.$4100 for a freshen up?What kind of HP are we talking about here?Don't get me wrong,everyone needs to make a buck now and then but dam*!!That's alot of cash for a rebuild with no real new parts.(like heads,intake,pistons)

Yes the bearing was worn where the two halfs come togther.As far ar engine temp it never got above 190 and alsway had same oil presssure.

[rocky]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Here's how I see this,I'll try to take this one item @ a time.

The rear main seal deal first,you told him exactly what you wanted to use,and he did'nt listen to that,and in spite of your specific directive,he went ahead and used something that you expressly told him not to use.

I would'nt have paid him a dime for that fiasco.

That's all on him IMO,as a matter of fact,I would'nt have even taken delivery till the rope seal was put in the motor,I would not have even put a second of run time on the engine with those other seals in them,not because there is anything inherently wrong with them or such,but just because they're not what was explictly requested by you,the customer,the one paying for the work.

Now the "freshen".

IMO that might easily include new rings,bearings,gaskets,definitely a hone job to go with the new rings,maybe a basic valve clean-up,and a light head surfacing,but any serious machine work beyond that and you absolutely should have been contacted and advised of the need and costs before any work was done.

I dont feel the line bore should have been consider part of the "freshen",if they discovered a problem during the inspection and diagnosis of the thrust bearing issue,absofrickinlutely you should have been contacted and told of such,advised of the costs involved,and then asked for approval/authorization for said work before it was actually done.

If they missed that main problem on the initial build,ask me they should be willing to eat at least some of that cost,as that should have been checked out on the first build.

Kinda the same deal on the valve guides,I dont see them needing service that quickly,so I'd be real suspicious about that deal too.

Deck surfacing,again this is not always the most commonly needed machine process,if it was indeed necessary,they should have brought it to your attention like the other items.

Further I dont quite understand why they replaced the retainers,lash caps,head bolts,or rocker studs,all those seem to me to be relatively durable items that rarely need service unless some issues were found,and again they should call and advise you,and get authorization to replace,that is SOP for a "good" shop/builder IMHO.

I dunno,I would likely be looking for another machine shop/builder myself.

But there are always at least three sides to every story,,,and we've only heard your side thus far...

I understand stand parts go bad but all that machine work is what I dont understand. I am no expert but have been building engines and pontiacs for long time.I wish I had the time to do it my self because of these hacks out there

[Ron H]

Wow. That is ridiculous. Sorry to hear about your poor dealings. Was the engine "fresh" when initially sold to you? You said "this was supposed to be done less than 50 runs ago", so I assume yes.
Either way, all machining should have been explained and authorized prior to being done.
Have you paid for the work?

[rocky]

Originally Posted by Jagtec1

You got SCREWED. Sorry to hear about it. You really should post the name of the business in the business section to forewarn others.

If you dont remeber the car we were at a track rental at atco a few years ago. I quess should have used Spotts and not who I did huh.

[rocky]

Originally Posted by Ron H

Wow. That is ridiculous. Sorry to hear about your poor dealings. Was the engine "fresh" when initially sold to you? You said "this was supposed to be done less than 50 runs ago", so I assume yes.
Either way, all machining should have been explained and authorized prior to being done.
Have you paid for the work?

Yes the engine was fresh.I spent like 12 grand whit all machine work decking block,boring line bore,heads decked,new valves and valve job,srp pistons crower rods,bearings, the entire deal

MAN I AM PIST

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by rocky

I understand stand parts go bad but all that machine work is what I dont understand. I am no expert but have been building engines and pontiacs for long time.I wish I had the time to do it my self because of these hacks out there

Hey,I'm not saying otherwise here,I just felt the need to reserve my final judgements on this deal,as I dont take any potentially serious situations at "face value" on a single fellas POV or such.

Without being an integral part of all this,I just chose to pause a moment before joining the lynch mob here.

It's easy to run on your emotions in these situations,it's a whole lot harder to maintain composure,and deal with a given situation in a calm,cool,and collected manner.

It's obvious your a bit PO'd,or you would'nt be here venting over this.

And we all deeply sympathize with your situation.

If we did'nt,we likely would'nt have posted to begin with.

I've just been around enough of these situations to know there is always more to them than what is initially known,now dont misunderstand me,I'm not doubting your word here,just saying I dont take huge leaps of faith without pretty damn good justification.

I gave my thoughts,without seeing an itemized accounting,I just cant tell you where the bulk of your bill may have become "bloated",and what items may have been reasonable enough.

And not knowing what was actually found in all this,really makes it hard to pass any judgements or such.