[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by KO

DATA???? HARD FACTS, REAL WORLD, 28 years of actually racing a real car

...and after 28 years of racing you'd think you should know what torque and HP are.

You fall into the "all experience, no understanding" category, eh?

[gtofreek]

Hey KO, I've been down this road before with MD and your wasting your breath. He will argue with you until he is blue in the face. He keeps forgetting this is the street section, Not the race section. It's pointless.
Yes small engines can be fast but really MD, do you really think a stock 302 Ford can outperform a stock 455 Pontiac? Your logic makes no sense. You really should be argueing big bore/short stroke vs. small bore/long stroke. Then your logic will be more correct.

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Hey KO, I've been down this road before with MD and your wasting your breath. He will argue with you until he is blue in the face. He keeps forgetting this is the street section, Not the race section. It's pointless.

True, I will argue to the end, because I am absolutely sure of my position. There is no room for doubt. I can back it up 900 ways to Sunday.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Yes small engines can be fast but really MD, do you really think a stock 302 Ford can outperform a stock 455 Pontiac? Your logic makes no sense. You really should be argueing big bore/short stroke vs. small bore/long stroke. Then your logic will be more correct.

Show me the curves and I will tell you which is ultimately capable of being faster. I am not making a blanket statement of all smaller engines make more power, I am only showing how it works.

[KO]

NO I have actually dyno'd an engine not pretended to on a computer.

Dynos measure torque and horsepower is only a mathematical dirviative of torque to generate little graphs that guys like you can play with.

[KO]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

True, I will argue to the end, because I am absolutely sure of my position. There is no room for doubt. I can back it up 900 ways to Sunday.



Show me the curves and I will tell you which is faster. I am not making a blanket statement of all smaller engines make more power, I am only showing how it works.

You are not SHOWING anything, you are blabbing about fictional HP graphs that mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world.

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by KO

NO I have actually dyno'd an engine not pretended to on a computer.

Dynos measure torque and horsepower is only a mathematical dirviative of torque to generate little graphs that guys like you can play with.

force*distance=torque

Also looks like math to me.

In the end, there is mass, distance, and time. MOTION!

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by KO

You are not SHOWING anything, you are blabbing about fictional HP graphs that mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world.

That is a ridiculous statement.

That's like saying I am blabbing about distance and time when referring to meters and seconds.

How do you measure motion in the "REAL WORLD?"

[KO]

How many races have you won with your graphs?

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by KO

How many races have you won with your graphs?

None.

How many people have you educated about torque and HP with your timeslip or trophy?

[KO]

Only a fool argues with an idiot so I guess I am being a fool. I'll go race and you go play.

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by KO

Only a fool argues with an idiot so I guess I am being a fool. I'll go race and you go play.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

[GREATGTO]

I think this was a good build, it sounds like the owner got what he wanted, just because he built a stroker doesnt mean he was looking to make 550 hp, I would much rather have a stroker making 400 hp and 509 ft lbs than a 400 hp 400 making 465 ft lbs in a heavy street car . Also remember he is probably just a cam change away from kicking some serious ass with this motor if he wanted to do it, heads ported or not

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by GREATGTO

I think this was a good build, it sounds like the owner got what he wanted, just because he built a stroker doesnt mean he was looking to make 550 hp, I would much rather have a stroker making 400 hp and 509 ft lbs than a 400 hp 400 making 465 ft lbs in a heavy street car . Also remember he is probably just a cam change away from kicking some serious ass with this motor if he wanted to do it, heads ported or not

AMEN to that! If he's happy, thats what counts. It will run real strong on the street. It may not be an 11 screamer, but it doesn't sound like he was trying to build an 11 second screamer either.

[95ramairformula]

KSgto- congrats on the motor. 409hp and over 500 ft lbs of torgue..awesome. I know you will have fun with that motor. Butler knows there Pontiacs thats for sure. Did you go with the XE 268 cam? I know they like the XE 268 and XE 274 cams.
I have had some friends deal with Butler, very good experience also.

Well have fun and keep her straight

Don't worry about what MD thinks, theres aways one like that in the group where ever you go. MD must not get any attention at home.

[stobin]

I find it amazing that someone can attempt to hijack a thread and take all the fun out of a persons dyno day. It sure sounds like the owner is very happy with the results. So maybe we should congratulate him on his accomplishment, and wish him as much fun as possible, instead of making a point to poo poo all over it!!

[ksgto]

Well found out the machine shop didn't port the heads or intake. So here are some of the spec's. 4.250 crank, eagle H-beam rods, Ross dished pistons, comp roller rocker arms, comp cam xe268H-10, neutral flywheel, harmonic balancer, performer intake. 9.5 to 1 compression. I've been told by Butler and the machine shop that if I wanted to upgrade, abasically set a new set of heads, intake, and carb. Everything is new in the motor for upgrades later.

[mchell]

nothing wrong with 400 + HP and 500 + torque.....should be a solid 12 sec. street car...... DO NOT get worked up over dyno #'s........amazing how dyno #'s have a tendancy to grow..........beat more than a few dyno braggart's that said they were making 500 + HP on the dyno..........who cares.......thanks for posting real #'s

[Cliff R]

Do I win a prize? I figured it was the XE268 grind. That is a very "small" cam for a 455 engine, and DONE by 4500 rpm or so. We've observed several very similiar engines on the dyno and at the track, and they all were at a brick wall at 400hp and 500ft lbs, even with ported heads and good intakes/exhaust systems.

The best track runs I've observed with a 3700lb car, well chosen drivetrain components, and good traction, with that set-up is 12.85 around 106mph. Not really all that bad for a "mild" combination of parts and good street manners. FWIW, MD's car isn't any quicker!.......Cliff

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

The best track runs I've observed with a 3700lb car, well chosen drivetrain components, and good traction, with that set-up is 12.85 around 106mph. Not really all that bad for a "mild" combination of parts and good street manners. FWIW, MD's car isn't any quicker!.......Cliff

Well, Good Morning to you, Cliff.

On street tires NA, no it isn't, but the MPH is over 110.

On drag radials it will run 11's, and on the bottle I would watch your car fade away in my rear view mirror.

[Cliff R]

Good morning MD, kill any big bucks yet? They are starting to move pretty good around here, I've seen two 140-150 class bucks in the last two days, after not seeing any since hunting season last year.

"On drag radials it will run 11's, and on the bottle I would watch your car fade away in my rear view mirror."

Yep, I'm still waiting for that to happen! I ran Friday night on a crappy track, and spun all the way thru first gear on one run, 1.85 60', still went 11.64 @120mph, so you had better get a BIG NOS bottle if you plan on running us down!

Anyhow, drag racing is still about ET, NOT vehicle speed. If you get there first you still win, even if you have a slower car!.....FWIW.....Cliff