[JEFF KIEHN]

hey all,i have a 64 tempest custom 2 door post and am going to turn it into a drag car it has a 6 with 3 on the tree! my question is can anybody tell me what motor works best for making hp at an affordable cost? i know there are a bunch of 400 out there but is that the best for the dollar? i am wanting to get in that 11 sec to 11:50 class i know there are alot of variables? i am probably going to use a 4 speed hydro that i have with 373's. i am new to the sport and new to pontiac power.everybody keeps telling me to just drop a 383 stroker because they are the cheapest! i would like to keep a pontiac in there if possible?

[SupergasDil]

I love the 455's. They make gobs of power very easily. I don't think it would cost much more if anything to build a 455 vs a 400.

If you can round up a 400 block then you can get one of the aftermarket 455 cranks with a 3" mains. There's a ton of options. Again I just prefer the torque and power of the bigger cubes

[440GP69]

With the gears and tranny you are using a 455 is the ticket, Save some $ for a good converter!

[HWYSTR455]

400 block with a stroker kit is your best option. Blocks are readily available, less expensive than 455s, and the stroker kits is only a few bucks more than machining a crank and buying the parts separately. Spend your money on heads, that's where the difference is.


.

[Mr. P-Body]

I concur. Stroker. The 400 block is stronger than the "big journal" blocks and more available. The Eagle "kit" is well-sorted and will live fine at well over 600 HP. You'll need about 550-600 to get your car where you want it to be, reliably. The "stroker" makes the same level of horsepower and torque as 455, so no "loss" there.

I also recommend you get Jm Hand's "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s" published by SA Designs. Lots of CURRENT information in there about the ol' Injun.

You will find the 383 lacking in low-end power, so you'll need to rev it higher to get the same performance as the big Poncho. The "cheap" 383s aren't up to the task.

Jim

[ho428]

Since this is a complete car build and if the overall build is budget minded to start out, I'd go with the 455 and minor mods. Run the car for awhile while you build a better engine or to help you decide which way to go with that one.
The engine is only part of the overall package. You need something that will keep on pounding the ground while you debug everything else. A mild 455 will do that.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

400 with a 4.250 crank is the best deal for the money. Just make sure you use a pre 74 block.
Unless you have access to a good complete 455 core to begin with.

The 383 SBC is a great combo, but ya gotta have Pontiac in your heart to go that way. A 461 cu.in. stroked 400 will get you there.

Drop the 4 spd hydro deal and go with a T-400.

The power, I don't care what brand you build comes with the .......... heads, cam and intake/carb choice. Everyone uses the same basic bottom end build.

[JEFF KIEHN]

wow this helps me alot now i know why i joined this site! so it sounds to me like a 400 stroked or the 455 either way as long as i can produce around that 550 to 600 hp i can get there, now i know there are more variables will this setup run on pump gas? can somebody also advise a carb choice for me as well? also one of you guys said i should loose the olds 4 speed hydro and opt for the t-400 can you explain?

[gto65lvr]

if it is a 2004r trans then you need to watch and be careful the torque of the Pont motor will tear it up with lots of spirited launches unless it is beefed up internally. The TH400 will take just about every thing you can throw at it.

If you lived close I might be convinced to pull my built 400 and super t10 set up out of my wagon and sellit for my ls1 install but who knows not that motivated yet. LOL

[Mr. P-Body]

The point about the smaller main bearing cannot be over-emphasized. It's less expensive and tougher.

A 461 CID engine will need 850 CFM to rev "solid" to 6,000 RPM. Add 10% for "giggles" and you're at the 950 range. Unfortunately, the Holley 950 is a less-than-desirable carb. An AED 1000 would be far better. An open-plenum intake is also called for. Victor is the best for an engine this size. T-2 is pretty good, but more "street" oriented.

The old hydro is just that. Old. Parts are hard to find, builders even harder. TH400 is as "sorted out" a racing transmission as there is on the planet. Price and availability are reasonable. Builders are fairly common. No need for "big names" here.

As others have said, the power is in the heads and valve train. Be certain everything there is first-class and the rest will follow!

Jim

[Region Warrior]

850 cfm minimum.

Th-400's will take ALOT of abuse and servive a long time with just a few mod's.

[SupergasDil]

The Street Demon 850 would be a great place to start. If you can spend a few bucks on the heads I would suggest a set of Kauffman D ports or a set of E heads. If not there are lots of iron D ports floating around that have already been ported that you can get for a steal but the porting is usually under 275cfm. With the aluminum head choices you can go over 400cfm now.

You can build your desired HP level on pump gas easily,,,, again a lot of the HP you're looking for is going to be in your head choice.

[JEFF KIEHN]

DOES IT MATTER WHAT YEAR BLOCK I SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR WHEN I MAKE A PURCHASE I.E. 400 OR 455? I AM GUESSING I WILL BE RUNNING A TRANS BRAKE SO WILL I NEED TO DO ANYKIND OF TUBBING OR MINI TUBBING TO COMPENSATE FOR TIRE SIZE? WHAT TIRES AND TIRE SIZES WILL WORK FOR MY APPLICATION?

[FromTheAshes]

I would look for a pre 74 block of either displacement, 400 or 455. They are usually stronger blocks and will hold up to much more punishment especially if you are expecting 500+ horsepower.

Here is a site for engine codes, to help you decipher the year, etc.
http://www.pontiacpower.net/engcast01.html

and another
http://www.yearone.com/updatedsingle...ontengid1.html

[Tim john]

I have a original standard bore 1969 400 engine block available if you are interested. It is in fantastic shape, it looks like a brand new casting, 0 rust, no damage, excellent condition.

Tim john---

[OINK 1]

I'd run a 455 +.040 with a 428 crank, the 4" stroke in that light weight car will be a real killer. We run 433 in a 1976 Grand Prix,( 428 + .040) #16 D-port heads, UD roller cam, Holley street Dominator, 930 vac. secondaries carb, 4:56 in the rear, 8" Continental convertor. 3450 lbs.Through the lights @ 7200 rpm
11.8 to 1, 110 gas. Runs a 10.52 @ Topeka, KS.
Record:
Douglas Motorsports raceway park, Wyoming
Pro-Et class:
#1 in 2005
#2 in 2006 & 07

Need help?
call
1-303-776-0877
I have lots of all the 4 bolt blocks, except 455 SD's.

Pontiac Gregg

[BVR421]

Look at Jeff's original post. He has to adapt a v8 to a 6cyl car, is talking about affordable, seems relatively new to Pontiacs and like most of us will probably change directions a few times. LOL
My suggestion is to find a 400 or a 455 either one that is running, perhaps a beatup firebird or Bonneville that still runs 1/2 decent and pull the motor/trans from that and get his 64 on its feet. That way Jeff will have a car he can drive once in a while. Leave the motor stock, learn to optimise the power that it will have while working on the body and chassis.
You guys already have him drifting into 10k engine (all good ideas) projects that a stock wornout 6cyl 64 chassis wont support anyway. I say spend time and money on the chassis first before any big power upgrade.
Lets get a V8 Pontiac in the car and get it running and go from there.

[JEFF KIEHN]

i actually have a 67 tempest sprint that i love driving until my 13 year old daughter starts driving! she has been begging me for her 16th b-day to give her the tempest,how do you say no to that? she didnt say she wanted a scion or a honda she wants a old school pontiac!!! i used to go to the drags as a teenager,now into my late 30's and 3 kids later its time for me for awhile! this 64 post i picked up for 500 bucks from an elderly couple that hasnt moved from the garage since 74 the car is complete! will this cars chassis not handle 600hp? what needs to be done? i joined this sight cause you old salty dogs have all been there done that!i would rather spend the money once and have a great time doing it! i sure appreciate all of your time guys!

[Thumpin455_GTO]

OK well 600hp figure 10k for the engine, no matter what heads it has, and on a stock block. You can get it done a bit cheaper but its a realistic number to work with. A Th400 is the minimum trans for it, anything smaller other than a built glide will be a grenade. Figure between $600 and $1000 for a decent converter. You will need a new fuel system, tank to carb, figure $1000 for that as a mild budget.

An 8.5" 10bolt will live for a while, but a 12 bolt, 9", or Dana 60 would be much better. Figure minimum $1000 if you can find stuff decently cheap and do most or all of the work, otherwise $2000 for the rear end. You will need a driveshaft that will take it, most stock shafts wont.

Getting it to hook and not be like driving on ice all the time, as well as getting it stopped is one of those things that some people can make work on the cheap through trial and error and a few broken parts. A 10 point cage is a good idea since it will stiffen the frame, and with 600hp it will need one at the drags anyway.

How about you consider a nice mild yet completely fun 500hp, or better yet 400-450 hp engine first? Taking it in steps allows you to find weak links and avoid pitfalls, plus you can enjoy it while you learn to keep it running. You can upgrade as you go, and most of the stock stuff will live behind a 450hp 455 or stroked 400. 600hp naturally aspirated is the point where you start getting into big money just to make it run and relatively safe to drive. Doing it all at once is great if you can afford it.

Im not trying to dissuade you, or make you think smaller, just offering another idea towards the same goal that you can work towards. Im still unbreaking all the stuff in my 79 Formula in the sig, and that is pretty much what you need to run 600hp NA.

My 14 year old daughter wants me to build her a 70-73 Formula and she already has claim to the 72 GTO. Its awesome when they want a real ride rather than a crapbox.

[JEFF KIEHN]

thats a great point! its not that i couldnt do it financially i dint know it would cost 10 for the motor,i was wanting to get at the track for around 7 or 8 when all done. i guess it does cont to build pontiac power? the most important thing to me is not constantly wrenching i just dont have a ton of time i am constantly working on dirt bikes and all of our honeydo jobs! maybe i am biting off more than i can chew i just didnt stop to think how hard it was to get into that 11's to 11:50's