[fiedlerh]

The only special parts you would need for an SD-455 Grand Am would be the exhaust pipes and the Ram Air system. Everything else existed in the parts system.

[myam]

What I was refering to was the ram air parts that were produced for the 73 model that never got released. I do know that documents exhist for the exhaust system that was to be used.

[fiedlerh]

Did somene post the exhaust pipe numbers or is it a mystery?

[x-bird2]

myam. the SD was to be THE pontiac performance engine for all model lines 73-onward from day one when engineering was given the green light from within the division. they ran with it and had long lead press cars equipped with the SD in mid 72. just in time for pontiac's new management and GM to have a coronary over it since they were not going to push performance due to the "nature of the times" for want of a better term. engineering had it ready for the A and G, it was more than an idea. if the press cars hadn't gone out, i doubt it would have even been installed in the F-bodies. the rod shortage wasn't a supplier issue, (i do believe a lot of them got back doored to racers as soon as they got them in) imho, they just didn't want to pay for any more. forget the date, but in addition to the rod order cancellation and restriction, there's a tech bulletin restricting orders of ANY SD components to dealers with owner VINS for repairs only. A lot of Developmental parts made it out, i almost had an aluminum SD 455 intake about 5 years ago--couldn't afford it. i had my hands on, years ago, a Developmental '56 dual quad bathtub that never had a bolt in it and still had casting flash tendrils sticking down inside the ports. still have some pics of that one buried somewhere. there's a reason some of those involved still are reluctant to talk about the program when i call--quite grumpy about it in fact--makes it tough. imagine a happy little kid with a brand new toy that he's about to play with for the first time when his older brother smacks out of his hand and stomps it into the dirt.

[myam]

I guess I don't quite understand why after 35 years a idea like the SD is still hard to get key people to talk about it.Sure the big GM hammer came down and the pain was felt.It was a fantastic project and some of us would like to see a insite from some of these guys on the frontline of the SD project. It would make great reading!
I felt that it had to be more than a idea with all the designing and part endineering that was done to produce the line of parts. I hope to learn more about it.

[Keith Seymore]

Excellent thread; I apologize for joining late (just going back and reading some old threads...)

Originally Posted by citydesk175

Some of this fitting and engineering process may be obvious in retrospect but some is not and I don't know if it is done this way anymore.

Yes - it is still done this way (only across the street from the Tech Center rather than in Pontiac).

Even with all of our "math" based engineering data and rapid prototyping there is still no substitute for holding a solid part in your hand, or attaching it to an actual vehicle.

This is particularly true for hoses, electrical wires and other "soft" components that won't necessarily behave in real life like they do in the computer images.

We still build vehicles, developing through the "mule" process, on to "Integration" vehicles and then into the assembly plants with non saleable and saleable preproduction builds going down the actual line.

K

[Keith Seymore]

I also read with interest the discussion about 2 door police cars, and the opinions both pro and con.

Although this pertains to a "sister" division what I am about to say is relevant because of the '73-'77 "A" body connection, otherwise I would not post:

I have mentioned before that my '74 Chevelle is a two door police version. The difference here may be that in 1974 the police option "BT1" was an available option on the base Malibu. As such, my Dad ordered one for my Mom to drive.

It wasn't easy, requiring several phone calls back and forth with Central Office and the assembly plant, most of the objections focusing around (a) the Police option on a two door, (b) the interior choice and finally (c) the large quarter window with no louvers. After considerable angst the car was built.

We have owned this car since new, it is my first car and still in my possession. It was built in Oshawa and is fully documented by GM of Canada.

Hopefully that lends a little credibility on (what I think is an) interesting topic.

K




(check out the garage in this pic):

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by greyno3

1973 FORMULA X project. A-F-X bodies.
>

Also - I almost forgot to mention, but these photos were obviously shot here at the GM Tech Center, as evidenced by the stylish "mushroom" shaped street lamps (which we still have) and the red brick of the Engineering Building (which we also still have).

Thanks for posting those -

K

[Sirrotica]

WOW Those photos sure make it easy to see where the CanAm, SD T/A and 74 GTO came from. The 73 A body car must have had more than one of those spoilers made also, as I remember a Car Craft article around that time that had a NASCAR look alike that was made from an A body car. It was black and it had the same spoiler on it and was monochromatic all the brite work was eliminated same as the car in your photos. I always wondered where they got it from because I had a 73 Grand Am I would have wanted to get one for. The Car Craft car must have either made from this car in the photos or someone got posession of another spoiler. The change in the rear sheet metal from 73 to 74 also would have made that spoiler a one year only exclusive part too. In the article they never mentioned where they got the spoiler from. I don't recall the Car Craft car having a shaker scoop on it though. Thanks for posting those pics .

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by citydesk175

There was a Grand Am SD with TA suspension and TA Steering Gear made as a probable press car at 895 Joslyn AKA Pontiac Engineering Bldg and now AKA Powertrain Engineering (one of several). I remember seeing it several times in the tunnel that lead through the Eng Bldg. Sadly it lived its last months or years in that tunnel because of its other feature: The Sun Roof Which had been blown out of the track early in its life and was never fixed.

So, there sat a fabulous car with a hole in the roof.

There was a placard somewhere on the dashboard that enumerated the features and accessories of the car.

BUT here is my question: when is a car official?
1. If it is put together at the engineering building?
2. If it is built on the pilot line?
3. If it is built at an assembly plant at normal speed?

I vote against #1 because it is not necessarily made to any official specs other than "Do these parts fit together?"

Yet I think the GA SD was probably put together at 895 Joslyn by the "Experimental Garage" mechanics

I never saw any other GA SD's but I did see the final report on the roof...
Blamed it on an assembler at Fisher Body.

Anyway despite the Urban Legend spell on strange cars at Pontiac, I actually saw this car on a daily basis for almost a year.

KTF
citydesk175

Originally Posted by citydesk175

Thanks for the comment and interest

I rembember a mechanic at 895 bragging that his really important job was to create next years model out of this years model. An official real current car was placed in his workspace along with racks full of next years parts.

CHALLENGE: Remove the obsolete parts, keep the carryover parts and somehow make the "future" parts fit.

When by a miracle, the NEW car works and looks like it can be manufactured, maintained and repaired, explain to all the engineers and draftsmen who visit to find out how you managed to make it all fit and work.... Because it might not have been all that obvious on the drafting board.

Some of this fitting and engineering process may be obvious in retrospect but some is not and I don't know if it is done this way anymore.

The next time you wonder what genius caused all the chaos inside your car, blame it on a mechanic at 895 Joslyn in Pontiac MI.

So, I think the GA SD in question started life as a real car and someone wrote an engineering work order to change it.

BTW KTF = "Keep the Faith"

citydesk175

If anyone is interested:

In the context of citydesk's posts I think we can speculate a few things about the history and usage of these three cars based on two things: the year and type of license plate and the vehicle usage sticker (in the lower left corner of the windshield).

First, some background:

In Michigan automobile manufacturers have the ability to use an "M" plate, which allows them to easily transfer the plate from one vehicle to another without any additional paperwork to the State (the usage has to be tracked locally on a log sheet) and at a reduced purchase rate. The downside is that the plate "should" not be used on public highways for general transportation, only active testing or transporting the vehicle from one location to another. The implication here is that you would install an "M" plate on a vehicle that is fresh, a vehicle that you do not plan on keeping in the fleet or, if you are going to keep it, one that you would not anticipate a lot of street miles.

A regular plate can also be purchased and assigned to a specific vehicle, just like you would do for your own personal usage. The implication here is that the subject vehicle is likely to be used (in the fleet) for a while and will see some highway usage (including general driving) during that time.

Secondly, GM company owned vehicles are identified by a little sticker in the lower left corner of the windshield. The Engineering version contains a unique GM "vehicle number" (ie, "KP8058"), which is cross referenced to the VIN and tracked in the fleet, and are typically either red or blue. A modern iteration of this sticker looks like this:



[Sidebar: notice, just for fun, this one happens to be an "experimental" VIN; that is, a VIN assigned to an experimental vehicle which would prevent it's sale to the general public, as designated by the "EX" characters]

The Design Studio usually has a different sticker, either more discreet than the Engineering version or in some cases more obvious than the Engineering version, depending on the context of the vehicle usage and the venue in which it is displayed.

Having said all that, here goes:

Both the X body and the A body car are Engineering vehicles, as evidenced by the blue sticker. These cars could have been either ground up builds or existing vehicles that were reworked into their current state (probably existing vehicles reworked since the changes are mostly "cosmetic"). The A body is a bit of an anomaly, since it is obviously a '74 model, but sports a 1971 regular plate which has not been renewed for 1972 (no yellow tab). At any rate, apparently it was expected to see some use. The X body is sporting a Manufacturer's plate, as discussed above, but it should also be noted that it is a 1974 M plate (blue with yellow letters) and not a 1973 M plate (blue with white letters), which might give some insight as to when the photo was taken. Apparently they were not anticipating keeping this car around or using it much on the street. Both of these cars would be available for physical testing or auto shows as desired.

The F car is apparently a Studio vehicle, as evidenced by the "stylish" vehicle sticker in the windshield. This would have started as an existing vehicle and then reworked/embellished at the Studio, since they have no means to build a (running, complete production type) vehicle from scratch (ie, their scratch built vehicles are either clay or fiberglass mockups, or obviously non production like the Corvette Stingray racer). This one is sporting a 1973 regular plate, implying that Bill Mitchell at Design was planning to drive it home often (lol). This vehicle would never be available for testing but show usage only, as well as the aforementioned highway driving.

Keep in mind this is all pure speculation, of course....

[Discoquik]

The F body looks like it has body plugs where T/A fairings would be. Any thoughts? Agree or disagree? Why aren't ther more photos of these vehicles?

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

The A body is a bit of an anomaly, since it is obviously a '74 model, but sports a 1971 regular plate which has not been renewed for 1972 (no yellow tab).

The A body is a 1973 model, evidenced by the header panel/front bumper, and the rear sheetmetal.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

The A body is a 1973 model, evidenced by the header panel/front bumper, and the rear sheetmetal.

Oops. I stand corrected, as I am no expert on those "newer" cars...



That also helps with the license plate issue, making it not so much of a stretch from a 1971 plate on a 1973 model year vehicle.

Thanks -

K

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Also - I almost forgot to mention, but these photos were obviously shot here at the GM Tech Center, as evidenced by the stylish "mushroom" shaped street lamps (which we still have) and the red brick of the Engineering Building (which we also still have).

Thanks for posting those -

K

"Inside of maybe the most sanitary Pontiac Grand National sedan ever built is so cleverly executed it doesn't’t look like all the necessary stuff is there. But it is and in stock configuration wherever possible-to keep cost down. Note 180-degree headers right side exit."

And..."Tom Nell, a graduate of Pontiac’s long-ago NASCAR effort in the early ‘60’s, directs the Grand Am’s engine and drive train sections, and is co-owner of the car. Incredible as it may seem, in these days of Chrysler hemis and stagger-valve Chevrolets, Nell has extracted enough horsepower (almost 600) from a 366 cubic- inch version of what is essentially Pontiac’s old 1963 Super Duty engine, to be competitive, Nell was part and parcel of the development team responsible for Pontiac’s hot new 455 SD powerplant, but it’s probably been a trade-off whether the Division has gained more from Nell’s private racing activities or he from the SD program. What it boils down to in the end is that Nell and a couple of other guys are single-handedly keeping Pontiac’s performance image alive."

Perhaps this is the design (from the A-Body '73 Formula X) for the rear spoiler also used on the Herb Adams Team Associates 1973 Grand Am?


ILLUSTRATION BY KENNY YOUNGBLOOD


Here's the complete story link: http://www.tachrev.com/GrandAm1973Nascar.htm

[chicagoland]

Just to remember there was a huge backlash against factory muscle cars from 70's environmentalists and insurance firms. GM was trying to avoid lawsuits and bad PR. Also, the top brass never was into muscle cars, and with John DeZ gone they wanted to clean house.

The amazing thing is that the F body made a huge comeback despite all this, and managed to get the SD at least for 2 model years. The 1975 emissions controls and catalytic converter was death knell for the SD455.

One other history fact is the OPEC Oil embargo started Oct 73, after the 74's came out. Common misconception is this killed muscle cars, but was actually 2-3 years after low compression, cutting motors, and no/low lead requirements of fall 1970.

And to throw in again about top GM brass, to them muscle motors were not profitable enough, and they wanted to seel more lux models with plain 400/455's.

[fiedlerh]

Agree. It was a combination of things.
In the 70's accountants and lawyers started to influence GM's decision making.
Our federal government's and California's emissions and safety laws put a real strain on all the auto makers. I feel these laws hurt US car makers and helped the imports tremendously.
Insurance companies were charging high rates for muscle cars.
Muscle cars were getting negative press in local papers (accidents and street racing).
Gas prices were rising, but still not too bad as I recall.
High octane premium leaded gas (like Sunoco 260) was getting hard to find by 1978.
When US car makers came out with their first economy cars, downsized cars and FWD offerings people considered them "too flimsy to hold up" and this spurred full size van and truck sales.

[chicagoland]

One other thing I remember about muscle car era end is that the low compression and Net HP ratings turned the die hards away from new cars. They really thought the net HP #'s were same measurement as Gross HP.

Also, new car prices were starting to climb in 70's, so many turned to the abundant used car market which had cheap late 60's cars. My uncle was in teens then and called anything after 1970 as a 'plastic fantastic'. Had a 69 Z-28, then turned to Datsuns.

Anyway, the SD motor was developed before there was any throught of gas lines, and the 'colonnade' A body was meant for 1972. Imagine if the 1972 GTO would have had a Grand Am front end? or LeMans with no 5 MPH bumpers?

[baron_]

We need a warning on page #1 that tells you you'll spend 30 minutes reading to find that the claims are BS, as one might have guessed anyway. Some decent info along the way, though

A local pontiac guy around me absolutely swears he has a one-off '74 GTO SD455 4spd car (says he bought it new). Refuses to let anyone see it, for fear of theft. And refuses to give VIN or any details about it.
Every time he talks about it, I walk away. Pure BS. And he's not an idiot, either...knows a fair amount about pontiacs.

Just wants attention, i figure - or has bought into his own pipe dream over the years

another plausible and likely explanation is that people like this get caught in their lie. They're at a car show or bull****ting with someone and go a bit too far with one-upmanship. Suddenly, they're admitting to having something they don't have....and the lie perpetuates, to safe face.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

Did somene post the exhaust pipe numbers or is it a mystery?

I'm late to this party, but that question got me to thinking . . . Anyway, I checked my '69-'74 A & G Pontiac MPC (August, 1974 - Canadian Printing) that I have on CD, and listed in the illustration section is a chart listing all of the part numbers for '73 and '74 A & GK bodies with the 455SD. My scanner is DOA, so I'll type it in:

PN Description

491172 Pipe, Exhaust, R.H.
491173 Pipe, Exhaust, L.H.
491204 Muffler
491176 Pipe, Tail (A) - R.H.
491397 Pipe, Tail (GK) - R.H.
491177 Pipe, Tail (A) - L.H.
491398 Pipe, Tail (GK) - L.H.
490633 Extension, Pipe (A) R.H.
490634 Extension, Pipe (A) L.H.

All the above PN's are unique to the SD455 application, excepting the extensions.

HTH!

[Brian Baker]

Had a guy one time approach my father and I at the Brudette Bros. car show in Hyattstown, MD (biggest all Pontia cshow in the region) after he spent a good 15 minutes looking at the Can Am. First words out his mouth were "I had one just like this when I was younger, but it was a '78 model". He even insisted it had the same body contours, even though we told him '77 was the last year for this particular A-body style...and that the Can Am was a one year only production. Guy wanted to argue with us, so we just nodded as if in agreement and he eventually walked away.