[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by JKrull66

I have sold quite a few of them over the past 5 years and so far no one has called or complained about one.

Race Hard & Have fun. If it ain't broke it's hard to fix or find out if it's an issue?

The one off my 535 came with the shortblock from your shop... but it is over 2 years old now. I figured it is a paper weight. No use crying over spilt milk. The ring came off and took out the timing cover at PSN this year, maybe 20 runs total on it. Even if it was replaced I would not trust it. If it will help you in some way it is yours.
Just glad to see others being warned to check their units, and that it was not likely something else is wrong.
Just my 2 cents.
John Krull[/QUOTE]

Can't log info if customers don't ever let me know. Duely noted, John.

BTW: I have over 85 passes so far on my PP SFI balancer. LOL.

grandville455:
Not to say an issue wasn't out there, but apparently they have taken care of it. He came on here and didn't try and BULLSH*T anyone. Just stated facts and if you or anyone has a problem feel free to contact them. Raisng hell on a public forum about a product a person has an issue with and never contacting the manufacture does what?
When I see people slam a manufacture, but still deal with other companies that have had issues they weren't resolved. I don't understand the ground taken? Where is the line?????
No hate intended.

Building the quantity of engines of different makes and all the issues I have seen or had to work with in the last 5/8 years is amazing. But if i quite using everyones products i had issues with to an extent, I would have to close up my shop. I have taken care of soooooo many issues that were manufacture issues and ate it. Most of use builders have.

[BruceWilkie]

They changed the bonding process to address a failure they found, thats great going forward. However with that said it does not properly address the product thats out there that has suspect bonding. SFI balancer is a safety item that should survive far beyond the rpm limits of a Pontiac. If someone broke a crank and drove over the mess they "could" get killed. If someone was winging the throttle testing something underhood and it fails it "could" send a piece of shrapnel(whether from the balancer itself or a piece it takes out)flying again possibly resulting in injury or death.

Interesting that very early assemblies are out there doing fine then some start failing. The manufacturer "should" be able to identify the suspect batch and SHOULD make things right. Warranty or no warranty. It is a safety issue. It shouldnt be a business ethics/moral question.

From my own 30+ year experience in customer service related field I know losing one customer from a satisfaction issue can and usually results in the loss of 10 or more new customers and possibly loss of existing customers that have no issues but "heard things" and are reluctant to chose you for their next purchase.

Lose your reputation and you will eventually lose your business. You can protect your reputation by doing the right thing or you can abuse the legal system to silence those that have just cause to say things that hurt your reputation. Truth and consideration prevails in the long run.

[quicksilver97ta]

How can you tell if you have one with the new bonding process vs. the old bonding process?

[grandville455]

Ken I did contact them... All they wanted to do was replace it! I like most out there dont have alot of money to be building a engine every yr...and I use the boards to help me build my engine to make good power and stay together... All I am saying is After all the problems i have seen with this balancer alone..makes me not want to buy one!.and I didnt mean to maybe slam the company itself, but i did want other to be aware of the problems and it looks like other people have found them to be bad also..Isnt that what these boards are for to help one another? When I called cnc motorsports who i bought it from ... they were like Yea we have had them come off on the dyno.. like it was no big deal.. well a dyno is a controlled area my car is not! People usually arent in the dyno area are they when they are revving the motor to 7000! Not hating on anyone.. just venting my opinions.. and I am sure u see alot of junk that is made that u have to make right!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Ken I did contact them... All they wanted to do was replace it! I like most out there dont have alot of money to be building a engine every yr...and I use the boards to help me build my engine to make good power and stay together... All I am saying is After all the problems i have seen with this balancer alone..makes me not want to buy one!.and I didnt mean to maybe slam the company itself, but i did want other to be aware of the problems and it looks like other people have found them to be bad also..Isnt that what these boards are for to help one another? When I called cnc motorsports who i bought it from ... they were like Yea we have had them come off on the dyno.. like it was no big deal.. well a dyno is a controlled area my car is not! People usually arent in the dyno area are they when they are revving the motor to 7000! Not hating on anyone.. just venting my opinions.. and I am sure u see alot of junk that is made that u have to make right!

I agree with you on the....... there was a problem. Looks like it is taken care of? Time will tell.

Like John posted. He had one come apart, but unless i am made aware of issues I can't contact the manufacture of issues developing "in the field".

Yes that's what the boards are for. And brought the Pres himself on here to clarify what when, here and how. At least he made the effort to explain it.
You have a product produced and expect it to be followed to your set standards or standards established in that area. Didn't KRE go thru this same deal with the MR-1 block?

When I contacted CAT and my suppliers I got no satisfaction, Returned lots of items and no re-inbursement on shipping. so i do know where you are coming from. But with CAT products you find the defects or issues before install as it's a visable one that shoulda NEVER left the warehouse!!!!.

From insider info to pass along.
I was told that some reboxers or importers play the defect game and odds. They produce these so cheap that if they have a defect or 35% return they are still making tons of money or hope that the customer just throws it away.
I'm not in the brain of the execs so I don't know if this is a Manufacturing norm or not or rumor?

At least PP offered to replace it with a new and improved version. Some companies don't.

[grandville455]

Ken I agree totally!... I was glad to see the pres come on here and explain this!...When I called PP a month or two ago.. There reps made no mention there was a bad batch out there.. shouldn't that be common knowledge with their reps? To Say yes there was a problem in a certain batch ,but we have since fixed the problem..,But even so i would still be very wary of using another one even tho he said the quality issues are taken care of!..Know what I am saying

[JoePapa]

I agree - they should at least make an effort to contact customers. I've already replaced it once and reported the timing marks are off. The TDC and 90degree increments are correct but the 2-60 degree marks are for another size balancer. I had to buy a dial back timing light to accurately set timing... We'll see what Jim does.

[mr68]

On my failure I did e-mail Jim and we'll see what they want to do. I put an original on to move the car around. I do not like to bash a manufacture that is trying to make reasonable product and a reasonable profit from it. I am in fact a manufactures representative and do
deal with the factory problems. Let's face it they are made by people and it is a learning curve. Professional Products is still in business and must be doing something right.
Lets see if they can do us right.
Russ Zangrilli
Pittsburgh PA

[mr68]

Well that was a fast response from Jim,
"Russ:

That's a very nice looking GTO you have. I bought a new GTO the first year they came out and for the first six months or so I had a lot of fun with it because nobody knew what it was. I surprised a lot of Corvettes with it.

If your damper ring is moving at all, you have a problem. If you send me your address I will send you a new damper. There is no danger of the ring coming off the damper but if it is moving, then it is not doing its job of damping. It won't cause short term engine damage but could over an extended period of time.

Best regards - Jim Davis "

I will let you know how things turn out and give them a shot.

Russ

[BruceWilkie]

IMO they should determine the possible bad batch and get the word out. Yes they addressed the issue when asked and made forward improvements. Thats a positive step. However there may be dampers out there that have failed or are about to that should be recalled. We havent seen that effort yet. Ken you sell/use their product, have they contacted you or your supplier of possible defect?? As a consumer should I trust a company that is only going half the distance to resolve a potentially dangerous situation? When you spend a little time researching for what balancer you want to spend your $$$ on and a certain Co comes up repeatedly with negatives across vehicle brands that was caution enough for me. Some boards made jokes of this companies products.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

If I depended on every supplier I have contact with..including Pontiac vendors to inform me of any issues. I would be nucking futs by now.

Oh.. I am.

[JoePapa]

I'm happy to report that Jim has sent me a positive note as well. He's also going to look into correcting the timing marks from 2-60. TDC and the 90's are good but the others are way off. I'm glad he found this thread and posted contact information.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by JoePapa

... but the 2-60 degree marks are for another size balancer. I had to buy a dial back timing light to accurately set timing...

Ditto on the non-SFI PP balancer I bought 3-4 years ago. I chose to machine off the marks and create correct marks 0-40`, using an index head on my mill. Also had to have a shop toolpost grind the ID, taking out about .002" to get it to be an almost-press-fit on an in-spec crank snout. A letter written to PP about this got zero response. Why would I ever buy from them again?!
I wasn't thrilled to see that PP had the "Best engineered new product" at SEMA this year, a drop-in performance distributor. I have to wonder how thoroughly the judges examined the quality-control aspects of it.

[70 Lemans]

Originally Posted by quicksilver97ta

How can you tell if you have one with the new bonding process vs. the old bonding process?

Email from Jim,

On the back face of the damper is a date stamp. I can't' remember exactly how it is presented but if it is all numbers, then it is the older version before we changed the bonding procedure and you will need to send it back and I will send you a new one. If the date code is numbers and letters (or maybe just one letter) then it is the later version with the improved bonding.


Regards - Jim Davis

[quicksilver97ta]

Good to know. Thanks 70.

[Me Notyou]

Originally Posted by 70 Lemans

Email from Jim,

On the back face of the damper is a date stamp. I can't' remember exactly how it is presented but if it is all numbers, then it is the older version before we changed the bonding procedure and you will need to send it back and I will send you a new one. If the date code is numbers and letters (or maybe just one letter) then it is the later version with the improved bonding.


Regards - Jim Davis

They should send out that information to everybody who bought one of those dampers or to every seller of them and have them then contact those people who bought them. That way they get the bad ones.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Me Notyou

They should send out that information to everybody who bought one of those dampers or to every seller of them and have them then contact those people who bought them. That way they get the bad ones.

Exactly my point.

[grandville455]

Yep....In my case dont really care if they never have another one never fail!.. I wont ever use another one, not taking the chance! thats why i would rather be reimbursed for the pioneer one i bought now.... How about it Jim?

[grandville455]

well i just looked and mine has numbers and letters!! yea i want another one of these!!!.not!!!

[elevatorman51]

I just checked mine out it reads 07 17 f and A429310 didnt have any failure but it did seem loose on the crank and was around 4thous. larger than the Powerbond. How loose is too loose?