[Me Notyou]

Hey. I pmed you the other day about your diesel ford. I was wondering what your overall opinion was of the truck. I'm looking at an 86 for less than a K. Its an F350 with new trans/transfer case and needs a floorboard. Guy says it runs great, but in the earlier thread I posted alot of people told me to stay away from them because they're money pits waiting to happen. Heard other things about cracked blocks and porous cylinders. From your experience what kind of mileage and reliability can I expect. Oh, it's a non turbo motor. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

[sleepy]

I had an 85 F250 6.9 auto. 8-10 mpg and nothing but problems. 80,000 and it drank 5 quarts of oil every 1000 miles. I couldn't get rid of that POS fast enough.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Me Notyou

Hey. I pmed you the other day about your diesel ford. I was wondering what your overall opinion was of the truck. I'm looking at an 86 for less than a K. Its an F350 with new trans/transfer case and needs a floorboard. Guy says it runs great, but in the earlier thread I posted alot of people told me to stay away from them because they're money pits waiting to happen. Heard other things about cracked blocks and porous cylinders. From your experience what kind of mileage and reliability can I expect. Oh, it's a non turbo motor. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

They're F.O.S.. 6.9s and 7.3s are very long lived engines. They gave good service in medium duty International S series trucks and busses. Everyone told me the injection pumps are failure prone, I haven't had any such trouble with mine. I have several 6.9 and 7.3s in the shop ; the rear pass side cylinder is prone to cavitation if the coolant isn't changed. The blocks and crank are very stout. Some of the early 7.3s did have some cracked cylinders because they were simply overbored (4.00 to 4.11") 6.9s from the factory. The non turbos don't have much power, but will pull.
Recently we had a one owner 6.9 come into the shop. Turns out the pushrods wore through the rocker arms, but the engine was 600 miles short of million miles, and the owner told me the truck was used mainly for heavy trailers since new.
As far as the fuel economy not so good ; many were geared 4.10 with no overdrive.
I modified my '87 with a later model 5 speed, a turbo from a DT466 and a intercooler from a Peterbilt. They were all cheap mods, but with the overdrive I can touch 21 mpg now. My 6.9 has no problem passing a 8.1 Chebby on a grade now with a heavier load.
If you get a truck with 4.10s and no overdrive, top speed is only about 75 mph.

[Me Notyou]

Dunno the gears but the truck definitley has no overdrive (it's a C6).Has taller than stock tires on it though so that should go a little bit to reducing wheelspeed. Won't help too much with the mileage though. It's too bad it's not a stick. I have all the pedals and stuff from my fathers '82 and the four speed, but it's only a 2wd.
What exactly would need to be done with the antifreeze to keep that from happening? Regular changing, or do I need a special type to cope with the cavitation issue?
So yours was a non-turbo originally huh? Hmm... How did you plumb the oil lines to it?

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Me Notyou

Dunno the gears but the truck definitley has no overdrive (it's a C6).Has taller than stock tires on it though so that should go a little bit to reducing wheelspeed. Won't help too much with the mileage though. It's too bad it's not a stick. I have all the pedals and stuff from my fathers '82 and the four speed, but it's only a 2wd.
What exactly would need to be done with the antifreeze to keep that from happening? Regular changing, or do I need a special type to cope with the cavitation issue?
So yours was a non-turbo originally huh? Hmm... How did you plumb the oil lines to it?

It was a stock 6.9 it was 170 hp base I think. As far as adding the turbo, lines, etc. just fabricated them or modified what I had. The antifreeze is more of a matter of keeping it changed regularly.
If you can find one the later Ford overdrive is based on the C6.
Here's a 7.3 , notice the rugged construction of the engine.

[mike nixon]

RE the cavitation issue. THere's an additive that you can dump in that helps prevent the electralysis that causes it.

I've got one out in a box truck that pulls 18 mpg consistantly with an auto overdrive trans. It's got well over 200k on it, the truck is worn out but the 7.3 runs like a charm still, no oil usage and never a major issue with it.

Glow plugs will be a yeary thing in cold climates but outside of that they're a great engine.

Mike

[Fishin2Deep4U]

My buddies truck kept me busy.

He ate 3 injection pumps, a set of injectors a turbo (ATS add on) and a bunch of other parts. He was getting around 16mpg highway, 4.10 gear, OD trans.

I finally talked him into selling it for a better rig. Went to a Dodge CTD. Although the VP trucks have plenty of issues as well, I can fix them and make much more power for far less cash.

He now gets 21MPG, is making close to 350HP (gonna be near 500HP after I build the trans and drop in the bigger injectors) and can pull anything he wants.

So it may pay to look to a slightly newer truck. The early powerstroke motors were decent, had intercooled turbocharging and there's ton's of "chips" that can get you a little more power and better economy to boot.

My '02 Dodge get's over 24MPG empty on the Highway 3.54 gear, 265/70/17 tire, bunch o power, twin turbos, cam, head studs, 0-ring'd, ect, ect and runs 12's with barely any boost at the launch.


Dave

[455Grandville]

Dave I agree, but he says it will cost less then a K.
Around here, it's pretty hard to find any pickup that runs well that's not a total basket
case for that kind of money (and that includes dealer auctions)
Your fuel economy although good, is right in the neighborhood for most newer diesel trucks.

Originally Posted by mike nixon

RE the cavitation issue. THere's an additive that you can dump in that helps prevent the electralysis that causes it.

I've got one out in a box truck that pulls 18 mpg consistantly with an auto overdrive trans. It's got well over 200k on it, the truck is worn out but the 7.3 runs like a charm still, no oil usage and never a major issue with it.

Glow plugs will be a yeary thing in cold climates but outside of that they're a great engine.

Mike

You have a link for this stuff Mike ? And is this 7.3 a N/A motor or a Turbo or a Powerstroke ?

[mike nixon]

The 7.3 is a N/A engine, 1 ton chassis I've been servicing it for years. THe owner keeps track of his milage as P.M.


I'll see if I can dig up a service bulletin.

Mike

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Dave I agree, but he says it will cost less then a K.
Around here, it's pretty hard to find any pickup that runs well that's not a total basket
case for that kind of money (and that includes dealer auctions)
Your fuel economy although good, is right in the neighborhood for most newer diesel trucks.

I hear you on the cost/ vs value thing.

I get the absolute upper end of mileage for any comparable setup. Most newer trucks get poorer mileage due to exhaust cam timing, retarded injection timing, ect. In cylinder EGR I call it. In fact, many of the newest trucks get less than 17mpg on average. Teh old 12V Dodges (94-98) were about the best. They could routinely get over 22MPG with a simple timing adjustment, grinding the plate, GSK, and a little AFC tuning.

And many of the DPF trucks get the worst mileage on the road.

Since I work in the diesel performance biz, I see lots of trucks roll through the doors. But with this setup, he could add an early model Powerstroke CAC and turbo and turn up the fuel slightly. It can also be retimed and that'll also help economy. The CAC piping will have to be custom, but it can be done. But even with 12-18 psi boost(210-250ish HP), it's only gonna get high teens for mileage and will get a little toasty when towing.

If it' gonna be a cheap beater, then you don't have much to lose. If you want to tow heavy loads and or get better economy, I would see if the budget allowed for a slightly different model is all. One note, my biddies mileage did increase with a few mods and going to 285 tires with the 4.10 gear. The extra torque helped him pull the same grades with less throttle.

Dave

[mike nixon]

Brad, here's the Ford bulletin.

The treatment will cross to a parts store brand of treatment now.

I run it almost eveything of mine as PM.

Mike


Article No.
93-6-11

03/17/93

^ COOLING SYSTEM - 7.3L DIESEL - COOLANT ADDITIVE TO PREVENT ENGINE CYLINDER WALL POROSITY - ENGINES BUILT BEFORE SERIAL NUMBER 981059

^ ENGINE - 7.3L DIESEL - CORROSION OF CYLINDER WALL - ENGINES BUILT BEFORE SERIAL NUMBER 981059

LIGHT TRUCK:
1988-92 ECONOLINE, F SUPER DUTY, F-250, F-350, F-47, F-59

ISSUE:
Diesel engine cylinder wall porosity may eventually cause engine concerns in some high mileage vehicles. Trucks with Diesel engines typically are used to carry heavy loads and accumulate mileage rapidly. These two factors cause the additives in the coolant to "wear out" prematurely. Also, Diesel engines operate at cylinder pressures two or three times the cylinder pressure of gasoline engines. Cylinder wall vibration from the higher pressure produces corrosion called "pitting" or "cavitation erosion". Without proper coolant additives, this corrosion can cause holes in the cylinder wall and allow coolant to leak into the lube oil. This concern has been found primarily in high mileage vehicles.

ACTION:
Add a supplemental coolant additive to eliminate cavitation erosion. Refer to the following procedure for service details.

SYSTEM REFILL

When refilling the cooling system either as part of the regular maintenance (36 months or 30,000 miles (48,000 kilometers), whichever comes first) or due to service performed, use the following refill instructions.

1. Drain and flush the cooling system to remove dirt deposits, oil and rust particles.

2. Add two (2) pints of supplemental coolant additive (FW 15) directly to the cooling system. (The cooling system capacity is 29 to 31 quarts.)

3. Add water and ethylene glycol base anti-freeze to bring the system to the desired freeze protection level.


INTERIM SERVICE INTERVAL

Perform at 18 months or 18,000 miles (29,000 kilometers), whichever occurs first.

1. Add 8 to 10 ounces of supplemental coolant additive (FW 15) to the cooling system.

2. For low mileage trucks, or vehicles with extensive idling time, (for example: ambulances), add 8 to 10 ounces of supplemental coolant additive (FW 15) to the cooling system after each 500 hours of operation.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Fishin2Deep4U

I hear you on the cost/ vs value thing.

I get the absolute upper end of mileage for any comparable setup. Most newer trucks get poorer mileage due to exhaust cam timing, retarded injection timing, ect. In cylinder EGR I call it. In fact, many of the newest trucks get less than 17mpg on average. Teh old 12V Dodges (94-98) were about the best. They could routinely get over 22MPG with a simple timing adjustment, grinding the plate, GSK, and a little AFC tuning.

And many of the DPF trucks get the worst mileage on the road.

Since I work in the diesel performance biz, I see lots of trucks roll through the doors. But with this setup, he could add an early model Powerstroke CAC and turbo and turn up the fuel slightly. It can also be retimed and that'll also help economy. The CAC piping will have to be custom, but it can be done. But even with 12-18 psi boost(210-250ish HP), it's only gonna get high teens for mileage and will get a little toasty when towing.

If it' gonna be a cheap beater, then you don't have much to lose. If you want to tow heavy loads and or get better economy, I would see if the budget allowed for a slightly different model is all. One note, my biddies mileage did increase with a few mods and going to 285 tires with the 4.10 gear. The extra torque helped him pull the same grades with less throttle.

Dave

I know someone who specially ordered a F250 7.3 5 speed extracab 2wd with a factory 3.08:1 rearend. Added a 75 hp boost and that's it. They claim to usually pull 25 mpg. Being the wifes F350 auto crewcab pulled 20-21 mpg to Florida recently (mostly 75 mph), I'm sure 25 is correct.
One of my customers has a few VW Rabbit diesels that pull 48-50 mpg and is currently putting in a 1.9 TDI in a VW Caddy Pickup (aka Rabbit pickup) using the older injection pump setup to avoid all the computers & wiring.
As far as I'm concerned it's hard to beat a diesel for fuel economy - anyone know where I can find a 4.3 V6 powered GM diesel ?

[mike nixon]

I know of several 1/2 ton GM trucks with the 6.2 that would pull in the 30 mpg range when not beat on. The one in my 78 4x4 with a straight 4spd will pull 21-2 empty and 13 pulling 13k on the govenor. It's got 4:10's, a straight 4spd and 33" tires.If I thought the block'd hold it I'd put a banks kit on it. I know she'd spit the crank out the way I run it tho.

Mike

[Me Notyou]

The main key with this truck is the cheapness factor. The body isn't too bad, it needs a fender, a door, a floorpan and new tires. My older brother has a full diesel parts truck with a bad engine but a good body that I'll be taking parts off of but it's only a 2wd, otherwise id just swap the drivelines out. His is a little older too I think.... The trans and transfercase are rebuilt with less than 6k on themon the 86.
The truck I'm using now is a 94 F150 XLT. It has a TON of miles on it but is in good shape. 5.0, overdrive, and I'm getting 12 MILES TO THE GALLON ON THE HIGHWAY!!!!!! Im not even going to tell you how bad this thing is around town. The only plus is the front/rear posi's and the full power interior.
The fuel is one of the reasons im thinking diesel, especially older ones as I have easier access to cheap diesel/biodiesel. Like, less than or equal to premium. Oh, also this one is a longbed and much heavier duty!

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Me Notyou

The main key with this truck is the cheapness factor. The body isn't too bad, it needs a fender, a door, a floorpan and new tires. My older brother has a full diesel parts truck with a bad engine but a good body that I'll be taking parts off of but it's only a 2wd, otherwise id just swap the drivelines out. His is a little older too I think.... The trans and transfercase are rebuilt with less than 6k on themon the 86.
The truck I'm using now is a 94 F150 XLT. It has a TON of miles on it but is in good shape. 5.0, overdrive, and I'm getting 12 MILES TO THE GALLON ON THE HIGHWAY!!!!!! Im not even going to tell you how bad this thing is around town. The only plus is the front/rear posi's and the full power interior.
The fuel is one of the reasons im thinking diesel, especially older ones as I have easier access to cheap diesel/biodiesel. Like, less than or equal to premium. Oh, also this one is a longbed and much heavier duty!

I'd try to find a diesel spec auto-overdrive if you're wanting fuel economy. They have a different bolt pattern then the traditional C6 / 460 V8 combos, so make sure its for a diesel. Problem with many of the non overdrive diesels is they have 3.55, 3.73 & 4.10 gears. Adding an overdrive will help your highway fuel economy. Many newer 7.3 Powerstrokes can do 20 + mpg. And if you do get this truck be sure and ad some type of lube for the injection pump like Howes or Power Service. I wouldn't worry about a turbo unless you really plan on putting a load behind the truck.

[Me Notyou]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

I'd try to find a diesel spec auto-overdrive if you're wanting fuel economy. They have a different bolt pattern then the traditional C6 / 460 V8 combos, so make sure its for a diesel. Problem with many of the non overdrive diesels is they have 3.55, 3.73 & 4.10 gears. Adding an overdrive will help your highway fuel economy. Many newer 7.3 Powerstrokes can do 20 + mpg. And if you do get this truck be sure and ad some type of lube for the injection pump like Howes or Power Service. I wouldn't worry about a turbo unless you really plan on putting a load behind the truck.

No real towing planned for the future, but I'd love to have the power, and I like that turbo whine!

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Me Notyou

No real towing planned for the future, but I'd love to have the power, and I like that turbo whine!

The turbo made a big difference on mine, if you go that route have your injection pump turned up 10%-15%. I've towed some pretty big loads up some nasty grades with no problem.